Is it okay to show your patriotism at the office?... (http://cbs11tv.com/local/patriotism.at.office.2.1020415.html)
For one Arlington woman, the answer was "no" after she hung an American flag in her office just before the Memorial Day weekend.
Debbie McLucas is one of four hospital supervisors at Kindred Hospital in Mansfield. Last week, she hung a three-by-five foot American flag in the office she shares with the other supervisors.
When McLucas came to work Friday, her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive. "I was just totally speechless. I was like, 'You're kidding me,'" McLucas said.
McLucas' husband and sons are former military men. Her daughter is currently serving in Iraq as a combat medic.
Stifling a cry, McLucas said, "I just wonder if all those young men and women over there are really doing this for nothing."
McLucas said the supervisor who complained has been in the United States for 14 years and is formerly from Africa. McLucas said the supervisor took down Debbie's flag herself.
"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.
"I was told it wouldn't matter if it was only one person," she said. "It would have to come down."
McLucas said hospital bosses told her as far as patriotism was concerned, the flag flying outside the hospital building would have to suffice.
Kindred Hospital Corporate Headquarters are located in Kentucky. They have yet to make a final decision on the matter. They have not returned our phone calls for comment.
The Kindred Hospital Corporation was chosen as Fortune's most admired for 2009. McLucas hopes they'll back her patriotism.
"I find it very frightening because if I can't display my flag, what other freedoms will I lose before all is said and done," McLucas asked.
What do ya thing?... :confused:
I'm getting the distinct impression that we're not getting the entire story here. A 3' x 5' foot flag and a pole? How exactly did she have this 'displayed' in an office environment?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 27, 2009, 11:14:58 AM
I'm getting the distinct impression that we're not getting the entire story here. A 3' x 5' foot flag and a pole? How exactly did she have this 'displayed' in an office environment?
Well, I'm not sure, but for somebody to find it ....offensive...is a little harsh, especially during Memorial day week.......It sounded to me like she had it on a pole, so it does not sound like it was being intrusive.
A 3' x 5' flag is the size you might typically see mounted outside someone's home; I can't think of many office environments where erecting or mounting a the pole necessary for such a flag would be considered appropriate and it has nothing to do with patriotism. If she wanted to display a garrison flag, should she have been accomodated?
well if anyone found it offensive, there's a border in each of four directions, and Id be happy to send them a GPS unit to help them find one right away.
That said, I agree...I dont think we're getting the whole story here.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 27, 2009, 12:32:35 PM
A 3' x 5' flag is the size you might typically see mounted outside someone's home; I can't think of many office environments where erecting or mounting a the pole necessary for such a flag would be considered appropriate and it has nothing to do with patriotism. If she wanted to display a garrison flag, should she have been accomodated?
I think this is a case where the woman actually IS being patriotic....her husband and sons are former military men. Her daughter is currently serving in Iraq as a combat medic....that DOES have a way of brining out some American pride in you....as long as her flag was within her space, just hanging there.....I got to agree with her...and it sounds like somebody needs to...as you would put it...........get over it.
I'm sure she thought she was being patriotic but it isn't atypical for offices to have policies in place limiting what, where and how personal items can be displayed and enforcing those policies doesn't make the person doing so any less patriotic as this story suggests. It sounds like she's the one who needs to get over it.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 27, 2009, 01:14:40 PM
I'm sure she thought she was being patriotic but it isn't atypical for offices to have policies in place limiting what, where and how personal items can be displayed and enforcing those policies doesn't make the person doing so any less patriotic as this story suggests. It sounds like she's the one who needs to get over it.
It does not sound like she was breaking a policy....it sounded more like some people complaining that it was offensive....if THAT is the case, then it sounds like the person...offended should get over it!!...are you arguing with me, because that is what we do...and just don't WANT to see a civil side to this?....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 27, 2009, 01:22:39 PM
It does not sound like she was breaking a policy....it sounded more like some people complaining that it was offensive...
It
sounds like that because the story was intentionally slanted to make it sound that way. We have no way of knowing what her offices policies are or if she was breaking them but if she wasn't, why did they make her remove the flag? Think this thorugh...a five foot flag requires a vertical pole over five feet long to keep it off of the ground; most office cubicles have walls less than five feet tall and restrictions against anything extending above that level.
Quote...are you arguing with me, because that is what we do...and just don't WANT to see a civil side to this?....
No, I'm arguing with you because in all likelihood this woman ignored her office's policy and when she got called out for it made it about patriotism instead of her own stupidity. She sounds a lot like you...looking for something to bitch about. :biggrin:
But the story says, it was removed becasue someone found it offensive..............THAT is the story...........you can say all you want that it is slanted that way, but you are simply basing it on ..... NOTHING other than your opinion.....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 27, 2009, 02:28:20 PM
But the story says, it was removed becasue someone found it offensive..............THAT is the story...........you can say all you want that it is slanted that way, but you are simply basing it on ..... NOTHING other than your opinion.....
If you could read, you would also note that the story is clearly written that way. After all, how interesting would a story be about an employee asked to remove personal property that violated office decorating policy?
Mush ado about nothing but at least you keep the tampon people in business. :razz:
Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."
Quote from: Gryphon on May 27, 2009, 02:55:55 PM
Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."
Huh...who'd have guessed?
Quote from: Gryphon on May 27, 2009, 02:55:55 PM
Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."
RIGHT!... ;)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/mcgonser/AmericanEagle.gif)
Im offended by those glittery ass letters, can someone ask her to remove that? ;D
sorry! No can do! ;D :biggrin: ;)
That's 'cuz saying patriotic stuff on a background of blazing sunlight, the flag, and eagles makes one a MUCH better patriot than someone who doesn't do that.
I am not any more patriotic than others just stating my opinion in my way. I am american and can make that choice freely. So far anyway.
No, FTW...I don't think that's it, but those creative enough to bedazzle their flags..they might be :biggrin:
Quote
Debbie McLucas is one of four hospital supervisors at Kindred Hospital in Mansfield. Last week, she hung a three-by-five foot American flag in the office she shares with the other supervisors.
This paragraph clearly states she hung a 3 x 5 flag in an office she shares with 3 other people. If she had shared an office with me and 2 others, I would have wrapped her in the damn thing and pitched in the recycle bin. An office is where you work. There is usually barely enough room for equipment and files you need to do the job. In fact, in my own office, I finally gave up and put a nice cloth over a stack of banker boxes, topped with a lovely potted plant. And the stapler. And I
don't share an office.
Let's be reasonable here. A few small pictures of those dear to your heart on the desk, a small trinket atop the computer monitor, and one small poster -- mine says "Don't meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup!" on the wall behind your chair. Less than 2 square feet for all personal items. The rest of the space belongs to the company. Does she take company time to sing the anthem and recite the pledge too? When you take a company's paycheck, they have the right to expect you to keep your mind on business. A 3 x 5 flag would be a real distraction, when four people are forced to maneuver around it. Leave your personal life at home.
Quote from: Gryphon on May 27, 2009, 02:55:55 PM
Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."
Can you imagine how much PAID FOR company time was wasted on this non-issue?
I experienced the same thing. I put a paper flag on the wall next to my cubicle and a magazine cover of the Bushes to try to stem the unholy comments about the president so I wouldn't have to listen to it anymore, and my editor came over and asked me why I put them up. I just said I liked the photo and of course, the flag. She said nothing more, but it did work. People around me kept their mouths shut.
Quote from: Gardengirl on May 28, 2009, 12:50:41 PMunholy comments about the president
That just about says it all.
So ... if people disagree with you, they are required to just "keep their mouths shut?"
Quote from: Gardengirl on May 28, 2009, 12:50:41 PM
I experienced the same thing. I put a paper flag on the wall next to my cubicle and a magazine cover of the Bushes to try to stem the unholy comments about the president so I wouldn't have to listen to it anymore, and my editor came over and asked me why I put them up. I just said I liked the photo and of course, the flag. She said nothing more, but it did work. People around me kept their mouths shut.
Lord forbid! Someone pull this woman up a fainting couch!
Unholy comments!
Gasp!
An affront to her delicate ears!
They mighta kept their mouths shut in front of you...but I'd lay bets they didn't have kind things to say when you werent listening.
Quote from: Gardengirl on May 28, 2009, 12:50:41 PM
I experienced the same thing.
Am I missing something? How is this the same thing? Nobody asked you to take your little paper tchotchkes down. You didn't share an office (or a cubicle, I presume.) You say "people around me kept their mouths shut" so I must assume no one even protested your decorations. Sugar, where do you see any similarity to the story of the lady who was asked to remove the 3 x 5 flag-on-a-pole from a four-man office?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 27, 2009, 11:53:10 AM
Well, I'm not sure, but for somebody to find it ....offensive...is a little harsh, especially during Memorial day week.......It sounded to me like she had it on a pole, so it does not sound like it was being intrusive.
Another fabricated story, no doubt, just to make sure the rabble are kept stirred up. After all, teabagging season is over, isn't it, hank and me?
You two don't actually answer those "nigerian business man needs to transfer to you large sum of money", do you? Oh yeah, you probably didn't win the Irish Lottery either, or are already counting your winnings on that "story"? Or, do you only answer the emails you get that end in "God bless your kindness for helping me my family, in Jesus name"?
I watched the news video and that flag isn't that large. And you'd better quit making fun of the tea bagging Dan 'cause you just might wake up before too much longer and realize what that was really all about not just what the media tried to portray it as.
Quote from: me on May 31, 2009, 03:47:08 PM
I watched the news video and that flag isn't that large.
It was three feet by five feet. That's bigger than my desktop! Large is a relative term, depending on whether we are discussing inheritances or kidney stones.
But it was on a pole for pete's sake. How much room did that take up?
Quote from: me on May 31, 2009, 03:47:08 PM
I watched the news video and that flag isn't that large. And you'd better quit making fun of the tea bagging Dan 'cause you just might wake up before too much longer and realize what that was really all about not just what the media tried to portray it as.
Nope, I saw the teabagging for what it was; a bunch of racists striking out at everything under the sun because there is a black man in the oval office, and he ain't there just to clean the carpet, even though he is the first brains there in 8yrs.
Quote from: Bo D on May 28, 2009, 01:25:05 PM
That just about says it all.
So ... if people disagree with you, they are required to just "keep their mouths shut?"
No one should have to listen to their lord and savior, little bush, be bad mouthed!
Quote from: dan foster on May 31, 2009, 08:42:03 PM
Nope, I saw the teabagging for what it was; a bunch of racists striking out at everything under the sun because there is a black man in the oval office, and he ain't there just to clean the carpet, even though he is the first brains there in 8yrs.
So when the VAT gets passed into law plus all this other extra tax that's been laid on us lately you're fine with it even if it is the 25% they're considering?
Quote from: me on May 31, 2009, 08:50:56 PM
So when the VAT gets passed into law plus all this other extra tax that's been laid on us lately you're fine with it even if it is the 25% they're considering?
You really have no clue, do you?
Quote from: dan foster on May 31, 2009, 08:42:03 PM
Nope, I saw the teabagging for what it was; a bunch of racists striking out at everything under the sun because there is a black man in the oval office, and he ain't there just to clean the carpet, even though he is the first brains there in 8yrs.
No Dan": people are sick and tired of being called a racist if they disagree in any way with a person of color, black, red, yellow, brown, green etc. It just isn't going to work any more. That old club needs to be retired.
Quote from: dan foster on May 31, 2009, 09:02:56 PM
You really have no clue, do you?
On the contrary. It is you who don't have a clue.
Quote from: dan foster on May 31, 2009, 09:02:56 PM
You really have no clue, do you?
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
Quote from: me on May 31, 2009, 07:32:58 PM
But it was on a pole for pete's sake. How much room did that take up?
And if the other three people who shared that office also wanted a 3 x 5 flag on a pole, that would be no problem, right? What size office to you work in,
me[/b?
Quote from: dan foster on May 31, 2009, 08:42:03 PM
Nope, I saw the teabagging for what it was; a bunch of racists striking out at everything under the sun because there is a black man in the oval office, and he ain't there just to clean the carpet, even though he is the first brains there in 8yrs.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........how can I best put this?................................................hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? :confused:
uh, you are an IDIOT!!!!.... :yes:
Yeah, that fits it best..........I think it is YOU that does NOT have a CLUE, dan...........you JUST proved it by that statement!!!... :yes:
Quote from: LOsborne on June 01, 2009, 08:34:33 AM
And if the other three people who shared that office also wanted a 3 x 5 flag on a pole, that would be no problem, right? What size office to you work in, me[/b?
Work? HAHAHAHAHA!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 01, 2009, 08:46:44 AM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........how can I best put this?................................................hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? :confused:
uh, you are an IDIOT!!!!.... :yes:
Yeah, that fits it best..........I think it is YOU that does NOT have a CLUE, dan...........you JUST proved it by that statement!!!... :yes:
Actually, he hit the nail squarely on the head.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 01, 2009, 08:49:47 AM
Actually, he hit the nail squarely on the head.
not by a long shot exterminaton..........not even remotely close... :no: he missed it BIG time....
he is a racial BIGOT....period
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 01, 2009, 09:03:44 AM
not by a long shot exterminaton..........not even remotely close... :no: he missed it BIG time....
he is a racial BIGOT....period
My ass, dude; there were
no minorities at your little redneck fest.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 01, 2009, 09:08:54 AM
My ass, dude; there were no minorities at your little redneck fest.
again as usual, you are WRONG....1000% wrong....and your buddy dan, said it was nothing but...
racists striking out at everything under the sun because there is a black man in the oval office....and HE is F'ing wrong on this %10000000 .... W R O N G...........I spelled it out for you.
Dan is a bigot!!!....and you BOTH are delusional on this.............BIG TIME :yes:
Nope but you've already been outed here as an abject liar so why let the truth interfere with your rant?
Quote from: Exterminator on June 01, 2009, 10:18:22 AM
Nope but you've already been outed here as an abject liar so why let the truth interfere with your rant?
I may have been "outed" in your own, egotisical brain...........but the FACT is you guys are DEAD wrong on this.......end of story.
Nope...hillbilly gathering...hillbilly band...the only reason you think they were all just normal everyday people is because they're just like you.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 01, 2009, 10:36:32 AM
Nope...hillbilly gathering...hillbilly band...the only reason you think they were all just normal everyday people is because they're just like you.
WAIT!!!!.....I ended the story!!!!.............you can't comment anymore on it!!!!........ ;) :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 01, 2009, 10:39:55 AM
WAIT!!!!.....I ended the story!!!!.............you can't comment anymore on it!!!!........ ;) :biggrin:
You forgot to say, "case closed!" :biggrin:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 01, 2009, 10:44:29 AM
You forgot to say, "case closed!" :biggrin:
my bad!..........CASE CLOSED!! :biggrin:
And to think I'd almost forgotten davejar... :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 01, 2009, 11:21:38 AM
And to think I'd almost forgotten davejar... :rolleyes:
I thought the two of you were 'tight' buddies?.......sky diving pals.. :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on June 01, 2009, 11:41:15 AM
I thought the two of you were 'tight' buddies?
Those of us of the non-teabagging persuasion do not think of our friends in terms of 'tightness'. :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on June 01, 2009, 11:52:00 AM
Those of us of the non-teabagging persuasion do not think of our friends in terms of 'tightness'. :razz:
:biggrin: :spooked:
So what you are all saying is that no matter what is going on no one can object, even if we feel it is wrong, because our president happens to be black. I'm sorry but I don't care if he's purple I don't agree with all of his policies and that does not make me a racist it just means I disagree with the policies. And for all of you who are wanting to blame Bush for this TARP thing why don't you also remember he was being urged to by the incoming administration to sign it and did so against his better judgment to try to help Obama get a better start. How was he to know congress would get so stupid with it? If he hadn't signed the bill everyone would be saying it was his fault because he didn't sign the bill like they were urging him to. Damn people wake up will ya?
Quote from: me on June 01, 2009, 12:56:01 PM
So what you are all saying is that no matter what is going on no one can object, even if we feel it is wrong, because our president happens to be black.
How about if we make the rule that you can't object because you're not too bright and you are woefully uninformed?
QuoteAnd for all of you who are wanting to blame Bush for this TARP thing why don't you also remember he was being urged to by the incoming administration to sign it and did so against his better judgment to try to help Obama get a better start.
Case in point: How was Bush being urged by the incoming administration when TARP preceded the election, ergo, no one knew who the incoming administration would be? :rolleyes:
QuoteDamn people wake up will ya?
Wake up indeed...and get a clue.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 01, 2009, 01:15:09 PM
(How about if we make the rule that you can't object because you're not too bright and you are woefully uninformed?) quote from ex:
Then you had better keep your mouth shut Ex: you are a perfect example of this. mcgonser
(Case in point: How was Bush being urged by the incoming administration when TARP preceded the election, ergo, no one knew who the incoming administration would be? :rolleyes:) quote from ex
He was urged to help whosoever the incoming pres was. (mcgonser)
(Wake up indeed...and get a clue.) Ex
Go to sleep and shut up! You are ther one sleep walking
Quote from: mcgonser on June 01, 2009, 02:19:16 PM
Ex
Go to sleep and shut up! mcgonser
Blow me. You obviously have me confused with your geriatric crowd who need their mid-day naps.
It started with congress because they knew it was Bush's last term in office and the pressure was increased after the election to do more.
Quote from: me on June 01, 2009, 04:11:40 PM
It started with congress because they knew it was Bush's last term in office and the pressure was increased after the election to do more.
Source, please. I know you're getting tired of me asking, so why don't y'all just give in and provide your sources each time your state something as fact?
Quote from: LOsborne on June 01, 2009, 07:03:36 PM
Source, please. I know you're getting tired of me asking, so why don't y'all just give in and provide your sources each time your state something as fact?
Where were you at when all of that was going on? It hasn't been all that long ago ya know.
Quote from: me on June 01, 2009, 07:05:18 PM
Where were you at when all of that was going on? It hasn't been all that long ago ya know.
I don't remember it being so cut and dried as you seem to. I do remember it happening before the election. It passed the Senate on Oct. 1, 2008. The election was in November. And before you ask, here's my source:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=5932586
And just to refresh your memory concerning how poor President Bush was backed into a corner over this, at that time, the Senate was not veto-proof.
This must be what I am think of where Obama was urging Bush and congress to hurry on the second half of the bailout funds so they would be available to him when he took office. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/12/politics/main4714609.shtml
Obama was asking for the second half of the funds (which had been voted on in October 2008) to be released a couple of weeks early. The first half had already been released. No new funds were involved in this happening.
Quote from: LOsborne on June 01, 2009, 08:04:55 PM
Obama was asking for the second half of the funds (which had been voted on in October 2008) to be released a couple of weeks early. The first half had already been released. No new funds were involved in this happening.
But if he didn't approve of how the first funds were spent or handled why didn't he wait until he could change things or since things were showing some improvement wait until he got into office to disperse the second half? What was the rush?
Quote from: me on June 01, 2009, 08:37:05 PM
What was the rush?
AIG and BofA were about to collapse. If they went, they would take all the interstate banks with them. And unemployment was reaching double digits. The car catastrophe wasn't even peaking yet, at the time.
The idea was to pump up the cash flow in the economy. Unfortunately, the banks horded the money instead of sending it back out, and AIG sent their C-suite people early Christmas presents. But that wasn't Obama's fault. Congress didn't tie the money to conditions. Our Senators and Reps need to be hung upside down and jiggled until all the money falls out of their pockets, but they are the ones who left the use of the money open-ended. The Prez was just trying (at that time) to put it in to circulation. I'm willing to bash Obama for the stuff he actually did, but he doesn't get the blame for things he had no hand in. Although, come to think of it, he was part of the Congress that drafted that "no-strings-attached" TARP package.
Quote from: LOsborne on June 01, 2009, 09:06:04 PM
AIG and BofA were about to collapse. If they went, they would take all the interstate banks with them. And unemployment was reaching double digits. The car catastrophe wasn't even peaking yet, at the time.
The idea was to pump up the cash flow in the economy. Unfortunately, the banks horded the money instead of sending it back out, and AIG sent their C-suite people early Christmas presents. But that wasn't Obama's fault. Congress didn't tie the money to conditions. Our Senators and Reps need to be hung upside down and jiggled until all the money falls out of their pockets, but they are the ones who left the use of the money open-ended. The Prez was just trying (at that time) to put it in to circulation. I'm willing to bash Obama for the stuff he actually did, but he doesn't get the blame for things he had no hand in. Although, come to think of it, he was part of the Congress that drafted that "no-strings-attached" TARP package.
He and McCain both were. I just wish they would quit piling one bad move on top of another and quit trying to put things back together so quickly they are making it worse. Even the 25 policemen in Ohio that just got hired are in jeopardy of losing their jobs already.
Quote from: me on June 01, 2009, 09:19:37 PM
He and McCain both were. I just wish they would quit piling one bad move on top of another and quit trying to put things back together so quickly they are making it worse.
Are they making it worse? The economy is showing signs of recovery.
QuoteEven the 25 policemen in Ohio that just got hired are in jeopardy of losing their jobs already.
Minutia.
Quote from: Exterminator on June 02, 2009, 07:56:18 AM
Are they making it worse? The economy is showing signs of recovery.
Tell that to the people who are losing jobs. That little kink hasn't hit yet.
QuoteMinutia.
That's the same thing I thought when the news made a big deal of Obama having created the jobs... :razz: