Indiana's Religious Freedom Legislation

[Bo D]

They don't.  At the same time, I feel there ARE INDEED EXCEPTIONS, when a person can be put into a compromising situation, where his/her religious values could be challenged....and it isn't a hateful thing, but merely a principled, religious value that they don't feel comfortable with in going against it.  (Did I word this correctly?)

Now, if you go back, I was NEVER, EVER a 100% supporter of the Pence Bill.  I even told Locutus, I felt FORCED to take a side, because of all the trashing that was going on.  My PERSONAL take is, Pence screwed up.  Not that I think it is a horrible bill, but rather one that we didn't necessarily HAVE to HAVE.  I don't think it was worth the ramifications it brought on.

By default, being the Conservative of the Zone, I felt a duty, to side with it,  ...and especially after all of the bandwagon facebookers, who took sides against it, just because of the Media's massive attack.  (Pence should have been able to "KNOW BETTER"....and NOT take on this bill, at least at this point of his career....it shows a lack of using common sense as a leader, imo)

I don't think he remotely saw this sort of backlash was coming.....or he thought he could muster through it, but he was wrong, and it is more than likely the end of his career...especially on a National Level.

I think I am moving beyond Pence and Indiana. I see this as disturbing on a national, indeed - on an international level.

I'll ask you this. What kind of Christian would use "religious values" as a basis for discrimination? Are they truly following the teachings of Jesus? Who are they to judge? Do they think Jesus taught or condoned discrimination?

Ponder this ...

"Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs [gays] who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can." (Matthew 19:11-12)

[Henry Hawk]

Bo, I lean towards your way of thinking or I certainly do not argue that a Christian should not put themselves above others.....for my personal belief is that we are ALL sinners....and we need to worry about our own well being and not judge others on if their sin is bigger than my sin, because my belief is God can careless, that He already set the bar for all of us and it is pretty simple, but we make it way more difficult than it needs to be.
With that being said, I understand how some people can feel the way they do and NOT WANT to support a particular lifestyle.

It has nothing to do with hate. 

I will go on record and say I have no problem with two people who honestly love one another no matter what their sex is.  I despise those who give "love" a bad name....those who cheat on their spouses, those who have no regards for any outcome of their actions.


That is where I believe Jesus stood on all of this.

[Locutus]

Here's what Jesus sayeth:

[Locutus]

Are you saying that as long as an activity is legal any person in business would have to participate in that activity by photography, catering, decorating, providing transportation or venue?

That's exactly what he's saying, and what all of us have been saying all along.  Once you open up a public business, and start making money off of the public, you can't discriminate against segments of the public based on your own biases and bigotry. 

It was wrong when it was done to black people, and it's just as wrong with gay people.  In other words, you must "fixeth the gay car, and serveth the gay pizza," or the Hispanic pizza or car, or the Jewish pizza or car, or the Polish pizza or car, or whatever adjective you choose to insert there. 

[Henry Hawk]

Wow!  We are still on two different wave lengths.....NOBODY CAN DISCRIMINATE!!!!!!!!

But we all have our rights to not participate, even business owners, in anything that goes against their sincere belief.  Nobody has yet to turn away someone from their business strictly because they didn't like them......THAT is discrimination......why is this hard to follow?

[Locutus]

But we all have our rights to not participate, even business owners, in anything that goes against their sincere belief. 

FIFY. 

---------V

Once you enter into business and become a public entity, you HAVE to leave your personal prejudices at the door.  I don't know how many times you have to be told that before it sinks in.

[Henry Hawk]

Show me where it says that!  Remember corporations are people....the scotus says so!

[Locutus]

Show me where it says that!  Remember corporations are people....the scotus says so!

You still think that's a good idea, obviously. 

And actually, anti-discrimination laws say exactly that.

Just wait until one of these things you incessantly tout as being "good ideas" around here comes back around and bites you in the ass.  As Y said early on in this thread, you'll be howling and bitching all the way to the moon and back.   

[Henry Hawk]

You still think that's a good idea, obviously. 

And actually, anti-discrimination laws say exactly that.

Just wait until one of these things you incessantly tout as being "good ideas" around here comes back around and bites you in the ass.  As Y said early on in this thread, you'll be howling and bitching all the way to the moon and back.   

If it can be substantially proven that any burdens they are against goes against any religious belief that they sincerely hold then that is what it is ,all about!

[Anne]

That's exactly what he's saying, and what all of us have been saying all along.  Once you open up a public business, and start making money off of the public, you can't discriminate against segments of the public based on your own biases and bigotry. 

It was wrong when it was done to black people, and it's just as wrong with gay people.  In other words, you must "fixeth the gay car, and serveth the gay pizza," or the Hispanic pizza or car, or the Jewish pizza or car, or the Polish pizza or car, or whatever adjective you choose to insert there.

Opens up some interesting possibilities, doesn't it?

[Locutus]

Opens up some interesting possibilities, doesn't it?

I think some of the possibilities have been brought up on this very thread.  Do you have some new examples to add?

[Henry Hawk]

Time will tell, that is the bottom line.

[Palehorse]

[The Troll]

  I am glad of one thing, with Pense signing this stupid bill he killed his chance for running for president.  Thanks to his god.    But if we lose the NCCA because of this, the stupid bastard needs to be hung.    I guess the stupid Republican voters of this stupid state, we will get him for 4 more years a Governor. 

[Anne]

I think some of the possibilities have been brought up on this very thread.  Do you have some new examples to add?

Sure, if everyone on here owned/operated a photography business and a member of the KKK wanted them to photograph a meeting cross/burning (I looked it up and if the cross burning can't be proved to be threatening is done on private property with the owner's permission in a spot not generally open to the public it is legal) how many would jump at that. What if someone wanted to film killing a bunch of pets at a shelter for their personal use, how would that set? Maybe a late term abortion. I didn't go back and read all of the previous posts so if these have already been discussed, I apologize.

Someone asked how catering is participating in an event. In my experience when you cater an event you provide the food and personnel and probably the plates, knives, forks, etc., and do the clean up. You are in a way participating personally in the celebration of the event. If you just drop the food off at the door it is something else, IMO.