8.9 EQ ~TSUNAMI ~JAPAN

[Anne]

CNN and Fox are having coverage of earthquake and tsunami. Real time translation from Japanese tv stations.

[Palehorse]

I can't watch any more of this. . . It is overwhelming. . .

One thing that has crossed my mind, but let me preface this by saying I understand the dire needs and the moral implications surrounding the needs of the Japanese people as human beings, and I totally agree with doing what we are to assist them. . . BUT - -

I find it VERY hard to morally reconcile the fact that once again the US and its peoples are stepping up to the plate to assist a country that has become a victim of a devastating natural disaster, and yet this same country and its peoples seem to turn a blind eye to those of us in this country who are suffering from unemployment, the financial crises, plant closings, hunger, etc. etc. etc.

"WE" (in the general use of the term), begrudge the victims next door across this nation, the assistance they require to overcome conditions that, in their world/life, represent just as dire consequences to their lives as those the people of Japan are now enduring.

"We" don't stop to think for one second about extending BILLIONS in aid and relief efforts and dollars to foreign countries, but shun our very own citizens as if they have the plague; even holding what very few lifelines they do have available to them "hostage" to a political principle. (The funding of which is nothing when compared to the billions this country extends in humanitarian aid each and every year to foreign countries).

We quibble over comparative pennies in aid to our own citizens while endlessly throwing dollars to foreigners. . . That is just wrong on so many levels I don't even know what else to say.

I wonder how many other countries are responding at the level we are? I wonder how many other countries will respond to Lady Liberty when she is similarly situated?

[The Troll]

I can't watch any more of this. . . It is overwhelming. . .

One thing that has crossed my mind, but let me preface this by saying I understand the dire needs and the moral implications surrounding the needs of the Japanese people as human beings, and I totally agree with doing what we are to assist them. . . BUT - -

I find it VERY hard to morally reconcile the fact that once again the US and its peoples are stepping up to the plate to assist a country that has become a victim of a devastating natural disaster, and yet this same country and its peoples seem to turn a blind eye to those of us in this country who are suffering from unemployment, the financial crises, plant closings, hunger, etc. etc. etc.

"WE" (in the general use of the term), begrudge the victims next door across this nation, the assistance they require to overcome conditions that, in their world/life, represent just as dire consequences to their lives as those the people of Japan are now enduring.

"We" don't stop to think for one second about extending BILLIONS in aid and relief efforts and dollars to foreign countries, but shun our very own citizens as if they have the plague; even holding what very few lifelines they do have available to them "hostage" to a political principle. (The funding of which is nothing when compared to the billions this country extends in humanitarian aid each and every year to foreign countries).

We quibble over comparative pennies in aid to our own citizens while endlessly throwing dollars to foreigners. . . That is just wrong on so many levels I don't even know what else to say.

I wonder how many other countries are responding at the level we are? I wonder how many other countries will respond to Lady Liberty when she is similarly situated?

  No one.  Maye some knows, but I don't remember Canada helping with the Gulf oil spill.

  Also We're going to help Japan, but our government cut the Tasmania detection aid to Hawaii.  Go figure.

[Henry Hawk]

I can't watch any more of this. . . It is overwhelming. . .

One thing that has crossed my mind, but let me preface this by saying I understand the dire needs and the moral implications surrounding the needs of the Japanese people as human beings, and I totally agree with doing what we are to assist them. . . BUT - -

I find it VERY hard to morally reconcile the fact that once again the US and its peoples are stepping up to the plate to assist a country that has become a victim of a devastating natural disaster, and yet this same country and its peoples seem to turn a blind eye to those of us in this country who are suffering from unemployment, the financial crises, plant closings, hunger, etc. etc. etc.

"WE" (in the general use of the term), begrudge the victims next door across this nation, the assistance they require to overcome conditions that, in their world/life, represent just as dire consequences to their lives as those the people of Japan are now enduring.

"We" don't stop to think for one second about extending BILLIONS in aid and relief efforts and dollars to foreign countries, but shun our very own citizens as if they have the plague; even holding what very few lifelines they do have available to them "hostage" to a political principle. (The funding of which is nothing when compared to the billions this country extends in humanitarian aid each and every year to foreign countries).

We quibble over comparative pennies in aid to our own citizens while endlessly throwing dollars to foreigners. . . That is just wrong on so many levels I don't even know what else to say.

I wonder how many other countries are responding at the level we are? I wonder how many other countries will respond to Lady Liberty when she is similarly situated?

plain and simple...I agree Palehorse.

[Palehorse]

The angel of death was very busy in Japan yesterday. I'm hearing preliminary estimates in excess of 5,000 killed in various media outlets. . . and going up. . . One town is reporting as many as 9,500 still missing. . .

[Sandy Eggo]

Yep, I was just reading this:

Roughly 9,500 in Minamisanriku -- a town of 17,000 in Miyagi Prefecture -- remain missing or unaccounted for, according to the Kyodo news agency, citing local government officials. As of Saturday evening, police said that 621 were confirmed dead, with thousands more missing. More than 210,000 had been evacuated.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/12/AR2011031201452.html?hpid=topnews&wpisrc=nl_natlalert


Grim picture

[The Troll]

Yep, I was just reading this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/12/AR2011031201452.html?hpid=topnews&wpisrc=nl_natlalert


Grim picture

  It is a really grim  picture, but that comes with living in Japan.  It's not if they are going to have an earthquake or a Tidal wave, it's when they will have a distaster.

  But good old Uncle Sap will come to their aid and borrow some more money from China while we let they sell their Jap cars here in America duty free.  Think about it.   

[Palehorse]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.before.after/index.html?hpt=C2

Watch the above video. It contains before and after shots of areas devastated by the EQ and Tsunami.

Also, I've heard and read reports today that state the EQ moved the shoreline of Japan 8 feet, and tipped the earth off its axis! 

[Palehorse]

Reports indicate that Japan may be getting nuked again; but this time we aren't doing it. . .

Officials say a meltdown of the reactor is very possible. They dumped a bunch of seawater into the reactor today in a last ditch effort to cool it down. I've not heard anything further surrounding the success or failure of that effort, and to tell you the truth, I don't have the heart to hear the news right now. 

[Palehorse]

This whole nuke thing has me thinking about things here in the US. I mean, I know it represents a much needed source for electricity generation, and we can sit here and discuss the pros and cons of nuclear energy forever and never get anywhere. What bothers me is that I am very concerned for what will happen when one of these earthen burps happen in the US, and in particular the central mid west; which is just chock full of nuclear power generation sites.

Let's face it, when it comes to homeland disaster responses in this country, I believe it is pretty safe to say that there are few to any of us that are content with our record surrounding response times and appropriateness of response. And I dare say that those of us amongst the population that have endured any of the disasters this country has been subject to will attest to the level of frustration and disappointment this has driven.

Yes, 9/11 drove some badly needed attention toward the subject, but still; events subsequent to that disaster clearly indicate improvements are needed. . . And they probably always will be.

Still. . . it is just a matter of time before a seismic event such as the one that happened in Japan, happens in the central midwest of this country, and those of living in Indiana are sitting very near to the New Madrid fault; which last burped in December 1811 through January 1812. Thats quickly approaching the 200 year mark. Plus, there are a TON of minor fault lines that run very near and throughout central and northern Indiana that, as we saw in Japan over the last 24 hours, can and will do a little burping of there own should New Madrid let loose.

Japan has been preparing for just such an event, (but expected to come from a very different intersection of plates), since 1976, and look at the trouble they are STILL having in dealing with it. And while we may not have the tsunami to deal with, we WILL have the nuke exposure - and depending upon exactly where momma earth decides to burp here, we may have a much higher level of possible exposure than they are enduring!

Yes, "they plan" for such things, but so did Japan; and despite redundant systems designed to thwart a plethora of scenarios, they all failed anyway. . . And while it is true that most of these facilities are west of Indiana, (Indiana has none - Turtle Creek is a coal fired generation station), one must consider that the prevailing winds track easterly, and should a release event happen in Illinois. . . well you get the picture. . .

I don't know about any of you, but I am going to be reviewing our disaster supplies, their locations, and  my insurance policies here real soon. I hate being caught off guard, and do not want to be forced to wait days or even weeks upon disaster teams to provide the basic necessities needed to assure my family can survive whatever comes down the pike. . . And something is. . . I can feel it. . .

[The Troll]

  The Troll is for nuclear power.  Absolutity nothing is 100% safe.  We need them and we need they bad.  I wish we had thousands.  Remember they say that we are going to be hit by a killer astroid, not if but when.

  But from what I have read the Japanese nukes shut down because of the tidal wave and the earthquake.  Guess what, when they shut down it stopped the electrical power that ran the water pumps that they needed to cool the rector down.   

[Palehorse]

  The Troll is for nuclear power.  Absolutity nothing is 100% safe.  We need them and we need they bad.  I wish we had thousands.  Remember they say that we are going to be hit by a killer astroid, not if but when.

  But from what I have read the Japanese nukes shut down because of the tidal wave and the earthquake.  Guess what, when they shut down it stopped the electrical power that ran the water pumps that they needed to cool the rector down. 

They shut down according to SOP as soon as the earthquake happened. The tidal wave took out the redundant systems providing secondary power sources and cooling water.

Your approach toward a potential seismic event in the midwest is the prevailing one, and exactly why it concerns me.

US reactors located in Illinois are predominantly cooled with ponds or lakes that are manmade specifically for this purpose; I know this because I fished most of them in the Northern and central areas of that state for years. In fact, most of them are "perched" meaning they are surrounded by earthen mounds designed to keep the water in place, and elevated above the elevation of the surrounding topography to allow the prevailing winds to blow across them. The main point here is the fact that they are "man made" and as such subject to failure in a seismic event. (This could be somewhat more of a factor with the Braidwood facility because it was built in part upon an old strip mine).

Now, even if the electricity is working you still need water, and a LOT of it, to cool the reactor(s) down in the event of an emergency shutdown. And if that water escapes containment due to a breach in the earthworks, or a crack in the crust that sucks it all down, and you are MILES from another water source from which sufficient water can be obtained. . . sorry. You are SOL. (And relying on public utility water sources is not a solution due to the fact they are more likely to be disrupted due to main line burst etc., as I am sure you already know).

Illinois Braidwood facility has two reactors, and both rely on the same lake. . . 2,537 acres in size. (Imagine all of that water escaping due to structural failure of the containment) And, while I can tell you I loved the fishing there, (some of the best striper fishing in the state, and due to the year round growth rate of the fish driven by the warm year round water temps, some monsters are taken out of that lake each year.), I do NOT want to be downwind of that thing should a release event take place.

http://www.exeloncorp.com/powerplants/braidwood/Pages/profile.aspx

http://www.exeloncorp.com/assets/energy/powerplants/docs/Braidwood/fact_braidwoodplant.pdf

And Illinois has plenty more of them just like this one. . .

[Anne]

My son works in nuclear power, in SC at Seneca and now in FL at Crystal River, it may be shut down now. I haven't talked to him since the incident in Japan. He never seems to be very concerned about the safety of them. They are supposed to build another one in Crystal River.

[Palehorse]

I don't disagree that they are safe under normal everyday operating conditions. I am sure the Japanese facilities were just as safe under normal conditions. Moreover, I am also fairly certain that due to the fact that they were built in an area that experiences a high level of seismic activity within a given year, they took measures in design and construction to compensate for this. And yet. . .

Food for thought though, since these facilities are normally located in the very same rural locations the state of Indiana is now constructing wind farms upon, why would replacing them with wind farms not be a viable alternative??? (Not to mention environmental impact)

[Palehorse]

I don't know if this is hyped by the media or not, but CNN is reporting that a high level Japanese official has stated that "we are assuming a meltdown has occurred".

Japan now has two separate facilities in critical jeopardy, and one of them has already supposedly experienced meltdown.

Surrounding the loss of redundant electrical resource failure - Japanese officials stated that diesel powered generators used for this were critically damaged during the earthquake, rendering them inoperable. Earlier today they also stated they were still awaiting emergency replacements for these generators.

"We are assuming that a meltdown has occurred" at a quake-damaged nuclear reactor, Japan's chief Cabinet secretary says. ~ source: CNN