Random Comments (RH)

[The Troll]

  You know what the people who voted for Trump will say if he is impeached or kick out of office?     Hillary and Obama did it.     

[Palehorse]

At least 20 dead in Sutherland Springs Texas, just outside San Antonio, when a gunman opened fire in a baptist church . . . ☠️

[Palehorse]

Sunday night rumble in the parking lot at WalMart. 1/2 of APD is arriving. 😶

[Palehorse]

At least 20 dead in Sutherland Springs Texas, just outside San Antonio, when a gunman opened fire in a baptist church . . . ☠️

Gunman was a discharged former member of the USAF. . . much to the chagrin of those posting he was a member of an infamous other group on social media.

This world is full of jackasses that use social media to spread division within this country. They are just as dangerous as a whack nut with a firearm.

[Palehorse]

Gunman was a discharged former member of the USAF. . . much to the chagrin of those posting he was a member of an infamous other group on social media.

This world is full of jackasses that use social media to spread division within this country. They are just as dangerous as a whack nut with a firearm.

And as it turns out he was dishonorably discharged for misconduct.

He went to the church because he was charged with beating his wife and child, or had been, and his in laws attended that church.

He was not legally able to possess firearms, and obtained them illegally.

He was NOT a legal firearm owner, nor was he a member of that idiotic group those memes on social media inferred.

[The Troll]

I don't know about you guys, but I am sick and tired of 24 / 7 coverage of these shootings and terrorist killing.      They are teaching the crazy nut cases how to do these crimes.  How to do it and the method of action to use.         Classes on how to murder on television.   

[Palehorse]

I don't know about you guys, but I am sick and tired of 24 / 7 coverage of these shootings and terrorist killing.      They are teaching the crazy nut cases how to do these crimes.  How to do it and the method of action to use.         Classes on how to murder on television. 

I have to agree. The media gets step-by-step accounts from law enforcement agencies that seem to come down with a bad case of what the fucks when faced with a bank of cameras and microphones. 😡

And a lot of the time they speculate and present it as factual. . . 🙄😡

[Anne]

I hope the men who chased him down aren't in trouble. Since it happened in Texas they probably won't be charged with anything. Good thing it wasn't California or New York.

I haven't had anything on my Facebook page about the shooter except about his dishonorable discharge and domestic violence charges. You have to be a special kind of crazy to kill 26 people in a church because your ex in-laws go there.

I read somewhere one family lost seven family members in the shooting. I can't imagine how they will ever get through it.

[Palehorse]

We don't need more firearms legislation, we need steadfast enforcement of the legislation that already exists!

Had the USAF properly reported the crimes of that shooter, he likely would have never been able to have purchased the firearms he used.

[Exterminator]

We don't need more firearms legislation, we need steadfast enforcement of the legislation that already exists!

Which would have prevented the shooting in Vegas how?  The most straightforward solution is to reclassify assault style rifles as class III weapons.

5 things that are harder to get than an assault rifle: a divorce, a passport, a driver's license, cold medicine, a puppy.

[Palehorse]

Which would have prevented the shooting in Vegas how?  The most straightforward solution is to reclassify assault style rifles as class III weapons.

5 things that are harder to get than an assault rifle: a divorce, a passport, a driver's license, cold medicine, a puppy.

He would not have passed the background check had the USAF reported his crimes as required.

I do not agree with the reclassification of assault style rifles as class iii weapons. Reclassification of modified weapons that are capable of fully automatic fire , I can agree with that. However, they are currently reclassified by the BATF automatically as class iii and thus subject to the licensing and transfer fees prescribed. And an FFL requirement as well. Minus modifications that enable fully automatic fire, assault rifles are just another firearm, no different than a semi-automatic handgun.

[Exterminator]

He would not have passed the background check had the USAF reported his crimes as required.

Re-read my question:

Which would have prevented the shooting in Vegas how?

I do not agree with the reclassification of assault style rifles as class iii weapons.  Minus modifications that enable fully automatic fire, assault rifles are just another firearm, no different than a semi-automatic handgun.

I have extensive training and experience with both (and with fully automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers, etc.) and we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.  There are many reasons we do not send our infantry into battle with handguns.

And an FFL requirement as well.

Nope, not a requirement.

[The Troll]

We don't need more firearms legislation, we need steadfast enforcement of the legislation that already exists!

Had the USAF properly reported the crimes of that shooter, he likely would have never been able to have purchased the firearms he used.

  Maybe not, but that don't keep him from filling his car full of glass gallon jugs gasoline.  Driving through the front doors and setting the whole damn thing with a cigar lighter and killing everyone and burning down the church.     There are a lot of thing that can cause mass murder than a rifle.   

  Remember when the crazy guy use gasoline on a train car and burn up a lot of people.  You never heard much about that, maybe gasoline and a lighter would be too easy to get.                         

           

[Palehorse]

Re-read my question:


I have extensive training and experience with both (and with fully automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers, etc.) and we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.  There are many reasons we do not send our infantry into battle with handguns.

Nope, not a requirement.

1. Point taken. My error. I guess whatever me has is contagious.

2. Key among them is that they typically face opponents that are armed themselves. My point being that gun legislation will know no limitations once enacted, as "assault rifles" will very quickly escalate to semi-automatic weapons. . . Etc.

3.It certainly is a requirement to have an FFL in order to legally modify a semi automatic weapon to fire full automatic. It is also a requirement to manufacture most, if not all class iii "devices" ie silencers, etc.  Also required to sell or transfer ownership of same, along with a "tax" that ranges from $5 to $200 per device and or transaction.

There are exceptions for those automatic weapons manufactured before   . . . The date escapes me at the moment. . . And those rules have applied in full for all firearms and devices manufactured after that date. .

Shit. Now I have to go look it up. . .😡

[Palehorse]

1. Point taken. My error. I guess whatever me has is contagious.

2. Key among them is that they typically face opponents that are armed themselves. My point being that gun legislation will know no limitations once enacted, as "assault rifles" will very quickly escalate to semi-automatic weapons. . . Etc.

3.It certainly is a requirement to have an FFL in order to legally modify a semi automatic weapon to fire full automatic. It is also a requirement to manufacture most, if not all class iii "devices" ie silencers, etc.  Also required to sell or transfer ownership of same, along with a "tax" that ranges from $5 to $200 per device and or transaction.

There are exceptions for those automatic weapons manufactured before   . . . The date escapes me at the moment. . . And those rules have applied in full for all firearms and devices manufactured after that date. .

Shit. Now I have to go look it up. . .😡

In 1986 President Ronald Reagan signed a bill that basically stopped the making of any new machineguns. The Firearm Owners Protection Act, which would loosen restrictions on gun ownership with the reopening of interstate sales of long guns on a limited basis, legalization of ammunition shipments through the U.S. Postal Service (a partial repeal of the Gun Control Act), removal of the requirement for record keeping on sales of non-armor-piercing ammunition, and federal protection of transportation of firearms through states where possession of those firearms would otherwise be illegal, also contained an amendment, The Hughes Amendment, (William J. Hughes D- N.J.) which prohibited civilians from owning any machine gun manufactured after 1986. All the other 5 categories (SBRs, SBSs, Silencers, AOWs and Destructive Devices) however can still be made, even by an individual, if he/she first applies for and receives permission to do so.  They will file an ATF Form 1 (maker form) and pay a $200 make tax fee.  A civilian can still legally own any machinegun that was created PRIOR to May, 1986 as long as they get approval on the ATF form 4 . Remember that no civilian can possess a machinegun manufactured AFTER May 1986 except for law enforcement and military so there is a finite quantity available.

I may have confused my facts a bit, but stand by my disagreement to having assault rifles moved to class iii . They are semi-automatic and modifications that enable them to emulate or actually achieve automatic fire rates are illegal; or should be. (However, there are ways to use the belt loop on your pants to achieve automatic fire rates from a semi-automatic rifle or pistol; and there are those that are quite adept at it and that can achieve high levels of accuracy doing so. I am not one of them. I cannot afford the ammo to practice enough to achieve it.)

My objection to this is based upon this cliff notes version of what it would require in order for a law abiding citizen, legally entitled to own an assault rifle, to obtain one if they were reclassified to class iii: (NFA=National Firearms Act)

Transferring ownership of an NFA weapon – All NFA weapons regardless of category (machineguns, silencers, etc.)  are controlled during their transfer from one person/entity to another.  These weapons transfer to another entity on what are called ATF tax forms.  Each ownership transfer MUST be approved by the ATF before the transfer takes place.  This approval takes sometimes many months.  Generally individual transfer is approved in 3-4 months, dealer to dealer in 3-4 weeks.  When the ATF approves the transfer, they cancel a tax stamp and this is why you sometimes hear some say class 3 stamp.  Transfers from/to individuals require a one time $200 tax stamp to be paid for EACH transfer (AOWs require just a $5 stamp).  These are considered tax paid transfers and usually are on an ATF form 4.  Dealers can transfer to other dealers using a tax free Form 3.

If a person buys NFA weapon(s) or item from someone outside his/her domicile (home) state, the weapon must be transferred 1st to a SOT holder within the buyer's state, similar to a Title 1 firearm transaction.  It must go to a FFL/SOT dealer in the buyer's state before going to the buyer. And the transfer of same must be approved by ATF before it can be legally executed.

This is an example of the labyrinth of hurdles currently imposed upon FFL holders and those wishing to purchase and own, short-barreled shotguns, machine-guns manufactured prior to 1986, Short-barreled rifles, suppressors, destructive devices, and any other title 2 weapons. (Class iii).  It is also a reason why so many legally entitled to purchase and own Title 1 (current) weapons, including "assault style" weapons, are purchasing them now rather than wait. The fear of outright banning and/or reclassification of some of these firearms that would impose this labyrinth and fee structure upon them once it was enacted.

Do they need them? No. Not right now. But in present day it is clear that the possibility of needing them is increasingly likely to take place, and should the proposed change you suggest take place, and you do not already own one or more; you'd be looking at a several month wait before being able to obtain it. Last time I checked criminals pay little to no attention to any legislation enacted, and the burden is upon law enforcement to properly enforce those laws already in place, and they cannot for some very valid reasons, including headcount and funding necessary to name two.

Moving bump stocks to class iii? Yes. I'd agree with that fully. Same for pulse trigger modifications.I also agree with this classification as it stands and applies today.

Assault rifles is a subjective term that will quickly encompass a whole lot more than the AR-15 style rifles. (As we saw with the Brady Act and it's broad swath of included semi-automatic firearms.) The swamp is notorious for changing definitions like assault rifle. Hunters of deer, etc., would quickly find themselves with single shot, bolt action rifles as the only option available to them in order to legally hunt. Anything else would become an assault rifle. . .

I apologize for my previous error(s) with full sincerity.

(There are also state level laws that severely restrict or outright ban ownership of all class iii weapons, above and beyond that which the NFA requires).

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/national-firearms-act-nfa