Obama Slams Health Care Critics For Spreading "Outlandish Rumors"

[Exterminator]

No

Have you told those union electricians, without whom there would be no company, by the way, what scum-sucking bottom-feeders you think they are and how they are responsible for the downfall of our country?

[Palehorse]

Here is a sample list of employers moving to this very same healthcare model this coming year. If you know anyone working for them, or their subsidiaries then you can expect them to be bitching about this very thing real soon:

Aetna
AT&T
American Express
Bank of America
Boeing
Cummins, Inc
Deere & Co
Eastman Chemical
Gap Inc
General Electric
General Motors
Georgia Pacific
Hess
IBM
International Paper
Johnson Controls
Lockheed Martin
Newell Rubbermaid
Northrup Grumman
Prudential
Raytheon
7-Eleven Inc
S/C. Johnson
Siemans
Starwood Hotels & Resorts
3M
Target
Textron, Inc.
United Technologies Corporation
Wendy's
Whirlpool
Xcel Energy

How well do you think the average workers in these companies are going to be able to absorb 7k+ a year in out of pocket expenses BEFORE their insurance pays a red cent toward their family's healthcare? How well do you think they are going to be able to absorb a 70% increase in medical expenses when they are working for Target or Wendy's?

This shit is DIRECTLY the fault of our useless congressional members! 

And for many of these companies,(bolded), it is the ONLY option being offered - take it or leave it. 

[Exterminator]

And they took our avatars, too! 

[Henry Hawk]

Have you told those union electricians, without whom there would be no company, by the way, what scum-sucking bottom-feeders you think they are and how they are responsible for the downfall of our country?

No, I have defended the IBEW on several occassions.......I think it is an excellent union.  It is the UAW that I find to be corrupt and caused the auto industry to fold here in the USA.

Our electricians are highly trained and we market our company as such....you get what you pay for.  They are excellent electricians, and our customers are willing to pay for them.

The UAW on the other hand were over-paid, with many, many un-skilled laborers being compensated way more than they were worth....hence the problem and WHY we could not compete in this industry.

[The Troll]

No, I have defended the IBEW on several occassions.......I think it is an excellent union.  It is the UAW that I find to be corrupt and caused the auto industry to fold here in the USA.

Our electricians are highly trained and we market our company as such....you get what you pay for.  They are excellent electricians, and our customers are willing to pay for them.

The UAW on the other hand were over-paid, with many, many un-skilled laborers being compensated way more than they were worth....hence the problem and WHY we could not compete in this industry.

  Are your electricians IBEW or are they scab.  Can you answer that. 

[Henry Hawk]

  Are your electricians IBEW or are they scab.  Can you answer that. 

They are 100% IBEW

[Exterminator]

The UAW on the other hand were over-paid, with many, many un-skilled laborers being compensated way more than they were worth....hence the problem and WHY we could not compete in this industry.

If you consider most of the workers in an automotive plant unskilled, you clearly have never spent any time in one seeing what goes on.  That notwithstanding, we not only competed in that industry, we led the world in it...for decades...with union workers.

I think it's sort of funny how you pick and choose which unions are ok and which aren't.

[Henry Hawk]

If you consider most of the workers in an automotive plant unskilled, you clearly have never spent any time in one seeing what goes on.  That notwithstanding, we not only competed in that industry, we led the world in it...for decades...with union workers.

I think it's sort of funny how you pick and choose which unions are ok and which aren't.

I saw first hand some of the riff raff from GM...and I have first hand witnessed the abuse by union members..... a realitive who took pride  and "screwed" the management eveytime he could...he and his union offical buddies laughed and carried on about how they could screw them over.....

with that being said, I know there are some great people, such as troll, my dad and many others.......this is not meant to be an insult upon them.........but, tell me that Hoffa and the teamsters where not crooked.  The UAW had many, many workers who got paid immensley to do a job that was WAY over paid...........like I said, they had a great thing going and they blew it....the went to the well too many times and it dried up.

[Exterminator]

The UAW had many, many workers who got paid immensley to do a job that was WAY over paid...

Some might say the same thing about electricians...it isn't like what they do is rocket science for what they charge.  In fact, I'm no electrician but I have rewired an entire house...I bought a book, read up on it and set to work...it was pretty straightforward.  I'll be putting in a couple of outlets this weekend.

...like I said, they had a great thing going and they blew it....the went to the well too many times and it dried up.

I tried to explain to you what happened to the auto industry in this country from a business perspective but you won't listen, insisting instead on blaming the union when it was the industry who did themselves in, not the people who worked for them.  If you'd like a poignant case history, learn about how International Harvester screwed themselves in the 80's.

[me]

Wrong again.  Rich people don't own corporations; people like me who invest do.  You sure don't seem to know much about this for someone who's "studied" it...lol...

But they started out with an owner who got lucky and was able to get investors to take a chance the business would grow and, of course they incorporated for tax and ins purposes,  If the "owner" is lucky he can retain 51% or more of the stock and remain the owner.  Investors don't "own" the corporation they just have a piece of it and if they happen to be lucky enough to own a certain % of the stock they have a right to a voice on the BOD's.  With an IRA or a 401K a person will never own enough of a certain stock to do that. If the "real" investors quit investing due to being punished with excessive taxes the corporation loses a source of money to expand or, in some cases, stay in business which causes the tiny investors to lose out.   

[Henry Hawk]

Some might say the same thing about electricians...it isn't like what they do is rocket science for what they charge.  In fact, I'm no electrician but I have rewired an entire house...I bought a book, read up on it and set to work...it was pretty straightforward.  I'll be putting in a couple of outlets this weekend.

I tried to explain to you what happened to the auto industry in this country from a business perspective but you won't listen, insisting instead on blaming the union when it was the industry who did themselves in, not the people who worked for them.  If you'd like a poignant case history, learn about how International Harvester screwed themselves in the 80's.

I'm sure you are not ready to dive into High Voltage or transformers....

But, I am going to spend some time sitting with my dad this weekend and I will take you up, and read about Int Harvestor....there may be cases, but to say the UAW did not have ANYTHING to do with there demise is hard for me to accept, when I have seen many reasons why to think likewise.

[The Troll]

I'm sure you are not ready to dive into High Voltage or transformers....

But, I am going to spend some time sitting with my dad this weekend and I will take you up, and read about Int Harvester....there may be cases, but to say the UAW did not have ANYTHING to do with there demise is hard for me to accept, when I have seen many reasons why to think likewise.

  Ford at Indianapolis at one time had the biggest bolt making plant under one roof in America.  They told us we were not making enough per square foot to keep the bolt makers unless we did some changes.  All of the men and the union went for it.

  We would put of the big bolt makers so one man could operate two.  Not a good idea, but they did it.  We in the Rehab rebuilt about eight of the big monsters a added all of the up dates on them.  They were like new and better.

  After doing all the work Ford wanted us to do.  They moved them to Taiwan.  We were making one of the larges bolt and Ford in Detroit made us sell to them for $4.00 each.  One year later Taiwan was charging FORD $14.00 a bolt and Ford was tell us that we weren't making enough money in the bolt making area.

  The engineer that was over it was really mad and while he was talking to a man from Ford World Headquarters said, you didn't know that they inked a contract to move them out two years ago.  The bastard lied to us.

  Two years after they shut down the bolt making operations they came be to us and ask our engineers how long would take to set up a bolt making operation.  The engineers told that as soon as they got the machines back we would put them to work.  But we don't have the bolt heat treat furnace any more.  They was a OSHA man setting in on the meeting and he said that there would not be any more heat treats in Marion County because there was to much pollution now.  No bolt making.

  When I was working Ford in Indy we had around 4500 workers.  They sold the plant to Visteon to break the union which they didn't get done.  Visteon went under and it was bought by some investers and they have gutted most of the machines and over head pipes.

  There is around 200 people there now making about $9.00 to $7.75 an hour.  They are about to shut the plant down.

  From 1957 to 2000 the Ford plant at Indy made all of the steering gears for all of the cars, light truck, and RV gears with around 4500 people, it all gone.    Free Trade? 

[Exterminator]

I'm sure you are not ready to dive into High Voltage or transformers....

Neither are apprentice and most journeyman electricians but they have to join the union as well.

[The Troll]

I'm sure you are not ready to dive into High Voltage or transformers....

But, I am going to spend some time sitting with my dad this weekend and I will take you up, and read about Int Harvestor....there may be cases, but to say the UAW did not have ANYTHING to do with there demise is hard for me to accept, when I have seen many reasons why to think likewise.

  Why not, if you make sure the power is turned off.  I have done a lot of wiring in my 130 house.  It wasn't wire for the modern times.  When I worked on it, I made sure the power was off with a set of wiggies. 

[Palehorse]

You know, this whole union debate is of no concern to me surrounding healthcare. Union shops are also adopting the exact same healthcare model I am bitching about right now.

I guess some of you overlooked the fact that General Motors is included in my previously posted list of companies going to this model in 2012.