Dysfunctional ACS Board meeting tonight

[Gardengirl]

Because sometimes you CAN'T trust the teachers in charge!

Like my Spanish teacher at MHHS that had a girl sitting on his lap much of the time. Like my daughter being in a class totally out of control because it was for kids who couldn't pass the algebra class the semester before, but they hired a teacher who didn't know how to do algebra himself, so he let the kids do as they pleased.

Like my daughter's teacher not showing up for a meeting between me, the parent, and the asst. principal because he was a drunk all semester and just wrote grades in the book willy nilly and threw away all the tests so he wouldn't be caught. They gave him a kindergarten class after this, because you just can't get RID of a bad teacher! You want me to go on? I have more horror stories.

[Sandy Eggo]

For every horror story you have, there are thousands of success stories. I'd say the "bad" teachers are an exception and not the norm.

[kimmi]

Because sometimes you CAN'T trust the teachers in charge!

Like my Spanish teacher at MHHS that had a girl sitting on his lap much of the time. Like my daughter being in a class totally out of control because it was for kids who couldn't pass the algebra class the semester before, but they hired a teacher who didn't know how to do algebra himself, so he let the kids do as they pleased.

Like my daughter's teacher not showing up for a meeting between me, the parent, and the asst. principal because he was a drunk all semester and just wrote grades in the book willy nilly and threw away all the tests so he wouldn't be caught. They gave him a kindergarten class after this, because you just can't get RID of a bad teacher! You want me to go on? I have more horror stories.

Ok before you get all "poor me!" on us, why the HELL did you not pull your kids from that school?  I guess you like better to have a reason to bitch.  If everything were going perfectly, you wouldn't have a reason to complain. 

Bad teachers CAN get fired and have.  It just takes observers to get off their ass and say something.  Anyone can look good in a 40 minute observation and most of the time they know when that is going to happen. 

I really think people that point out the numerous amounts of "bad" teachers their children had are looking for something to bitch about and are ignorant about their child's education anyway. 

[Bo D]

I really think people that point out the numerous amounts of "bad" teachers their children had are looking for something to bitch about and are ignorant about their child's education anyway.

[me]

Ok before you get all "poor me!" on us, why the HELL did you not pull your kids from that school?  I guess you like better to have a reason to bitch.  If everything were going perfectly, you wouldn't have a reason to complain. 

Bad teachers CAN get fired and have.  It just takes observers to get off their ass and say something.  Anyone can look good in a 40 minute observation and most of the time they know when that is going to happen. 

I really think people that point out the numerous amounts of "bad" teachers their children had are looking for something to bitch about and are ignorant about their child's education anyway.

Hate to say this but you are wrong about getting rid of bad teachers easily.  When my daughters were in middle school one of them had a teacher who was known to keep whiskey in her desk drawer and drink through out the day.  My oldest daughter loved school and always got along with the teachers, even the ones no one else could get along with, but this teacher was the exception.  I went to the school and talked to the principle who told me, "we know she drinks during the day and would love to be able to fire her but she is tenured and we can't".  They had numerous complaints on her too. This was in the mid 70's and the teacher was there until she retired.  Also not everyone has the money to put their kids in a private school or pay tuition to send them to another school out of their district.

[Bo D]

I went to the school and talked to the principle who told me, "we know she drinks during the day and would love to be able to fire her but she is tenured and we can't". 

Then you failed in your duty to inform the Principal of the following.


http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm

"Most States have tenure laws that prevent public school teachers from being fired without just cause and due process. Teachers may obtain tenure after they have satisfactorily completed a probationary period of teaching, normally 3 years. Tenure does not absolutely guarantee a job, but it does provide some security

[me]

Then you failed in your duty to inform the Principal of the following.


http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm

"Most States have tenure laws that prevent public school teachers from being fired without just cause and due process. Teachers may obtain tenure after they have satisfactorily completed a probationary period of teaching, normally 3 years. Tenure does not absolutely guarantee a job, but it does provide some security

But was that in effect in the 70's?  I was just pointing out to Kimmi that things weren't always like they are now and all school systems aren't the same.

[Bo D]

But was that in effect in the 70's? 

Did you check? I don't care if it was in the 50's. I wouldn't have accepted that principal's answer.

[me]

Did you check? I don't care if it was in the 50's. I wouldn't have accepted that principal's answer.

They did change her class so I was satisfied with that.  I guess I really shouldn't have been nor should have the other parents that complained, but it seemed like the only solution at the time.  My daughter ended up in an advanced English class and was better off for it in the long run.

[kimmi]

Then you failed in your duty to inform the Principal of the following.


http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos069.htm

"Most States have tenure laws that prevent public school teachers from being fired without just cause and due process. Teachers may obtain tenure after they have satisfactorily completed a probationary period of teaching, normally 3 years. Tenure does not absolutely guarantee a job, but it does provide some security

Exactly!

[me]

That information was not easily accessible in the 70's and before.  No computers, remember.  Had I known that I most likely would have jogged his memory. 

[Palehorse]

I grew up in Chicago. One day (3rd grade) as I walked to school I was stabbed in the back for my lunch money.

I was a kid and did not realize I had been stabbed. I just thought the kid had punched me really hard then pulled the knife. I handed over the money as soon as I saw the knife.

My teacher must have noticed I was hurting or something. She came right to me as I sat at my desk, and would not accept my explanation for the way I was sitting. She insisted I get up. Then she saw the blood and walked me straight away to the nurse, who called the big cheese, who called the police.

The whole time I was scared as hell, but that teacher stayed with me and refused to leave my side. The police had me looking through class photo's until I saw the 8th grader who had done this to me.

The nurse said I wouldn't need stitches and applied some butterflies. Mom arrived, and all of us went to this kids classroom. He was promptly marched up to the head of the class, made to grab his ankles, and the big cheese went to work on him with a big ol' paddle. The he turned to look at me and I thought I was next! (I cried like the little boy I was, as the cops marched him out in bracelets). I never even knew I had been stabbed until we got home.

We went home and dad moved us to the suburbs the next day. And the day after that the teacher came to my new home to make sure I was alright. (I loved her like little boys do when cute young women pay special attention to us like that).

All these years (decades) later I can still see her face and remember her name. (And yes I have spoken to her face-to-face within the last 6 years and told her how much I appreciated all she did for me. I am so thankful to have had that opportunity, even though that time we both cried).

Good teachers have just as large an impact upon the children they are charged with as the bad ones do. They just don't get the attention of the media that the bad ones do.

The new POTUS has stated that it is a priority for him and his administration to correct that, to hold bad teachers accountable, to offer them the opportunity to correct it, and to fire them when they don't.  Lets all learn from the mistakes of the past, stop dwelling on them, and give the POTUS some time to put things right shall we? 

In the meantime, if the local system isn't working I suspect the new federal one will. . .

[me]

I sure hope you're right PH.  I had some wonderful teachers to as did my kids but it seems there are fewer and fewer of them now.  Kimmi, you happen to be one of he good ones but don't be blinded to the fact that there are teachers out there who just don't give a darn in every school system. I'm sorry and I know not many will agree with me but it seems like since schools started getting federal money and the unions got in they have gone to pot.  Discipline also needs to be reintroduced into the schools so teachers and principles as well as bus drivers can again have the upper hand on things. 

[kimmi]

You can't reintroduce discipline that was used 20+ years ago because that is illegal. 

Besides, there are too many parents who come running to their child's defense even when they know that their child was in the wrong.  I witnessed it today!  Two boys fighting yesterday when there was a sub.  Today they were in the office for in school suspension.  Dad A came in and verbally confronted (attacked) the teacher who was not even here yesterday and then came in and went all loco on the principal who basically told him that his child could either have in school suspension, get his work done and it not be on his record, or he was more than welcome to take him home for three days.  All because he told his child that if anyone pushes him, he is to lay into them.  Awesome!! I'm glad that we are teaching our kids that if they don't get their way just to hit them.  However, we can't use spanking as a means to stop behaviors because it is seen as teaching children to hit. 

Me I'm not denying that there are poor teachers floating around, but if the general public paints teachers and public figures as the devil and teaches their children not to trust them, then who the hell is going to take school seriously? 

You can call discipline a federal money problem and a union problem but I call it a Dr. Spock problem!!  I also don't see how fed money and unions are causing parents to never show up for conferences.  I don't see how those two items are responsible for kids coming to kindergarten without being able to recognize their own name, know their colors, or even begin to sing their ABC's. 

[me]

I will have to agree with you on the Dr. Spock generation being the cause of the discipline problem.  While I don't agree with teacher's being able to spank a child, too many abuse the privilege, I think detention should be used more rather than suspension.  A lot of kids act out just so they will get suspended and if they had to be there only in a different class and have strict rules to go by maybe it would start turning around a little.  I don't know the answer to the parents who uphold a child's bad behavior that has been going on forever although not to the extreme it seems to be today.  As far as the fed money and the unions are concerned I'm just going on observation and when things started going downhill because I haven't had kids in school since '82' and things seemed to be going fairly well then.