Illegal Immigration

[Sandy Eggo]

I'm reading an interesting fiction book that has this as its theme - The Tortilla Curtain by TC Boyle.  I should be done with it today.  It is very interesting. 

I think if people are trying to make a living here without doing illegal activity, then they should stay.  Problem with deporting people for doing illegal activity is that most people don't have a place to be deported to.  This country is a melting pot and I think it should stay that way. 

The problem with that is how much crime are the illegal immigrants taking credit for that they didn't actually commit? They can't really defend themselves so they seem like easy targets.  Just like in the book. Delany was all set to nab the people vandalizing the wall, certain that Mexicans were guilty, but once he found out that the son of a friend was doing the vandalizing, suddenly it became a non-issue.

Everyone in the neighborhood assumed that a Mexican set the fire...which was nothing but a lucky guess on their part...but it wasn't set out of ill regard for the canyon. It was an accident that could happen to anyone regardless of nationality.

True, it was fiction, but the scenarios in the book are very realistic.

Something that isn't discussed is the process to acquire a green card. Is it that difficult to attain one? What about a working VISA if the immigrants don't want to become citizens. Is that difficult?

It just seems that if people are going to make an "industry" out of bringing the people to the country and using them as a labor pool, that someone could just as easily make an "industry" of helping them file the appropriate paper work. Saying this, I know there's an office they can go to. I mean, someone that they trust that will help guide them to the office(s) and through the legal process.

It would be interesting to have the perspective of an immigrant regarding that process. It might help us understand why they opt to take their chances.

[Monroe]

SOMETIMES there is a reason why people have preconceptions, often based on nonfiction.


Statistics:

Criminal Alien Prison Population –
According to an April 7th, 2005 General Accounting Office (GAO) study entitled, "Information on Criminal Aliens Incarcerated in Federal and State Prisons and Local Jails" [Report # GAO-05-337R] prepared for the Congressional Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security, and Claims:

"27% of the total population in all U.S. prison systems (including city, county, state and federal) is composed of criminal aliens."

Total Murders in the U.S. in 2005 –
According to the FBI, there were 16,692 persons murdered in the U.S. in 2005. The Uniform Crime Reporting Program defines murder and non-negligent manslaughter as the willful killing of one human being by another.

Total Drunk-Driving Fatalities in the U.S. in 2005 –
According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 12,945 Americans were killed in car crashes where the driver had a blood alcohol concentration of .08g/dL or higher in 2005.

Calculations:
Total number of people murdered in the U.S. at the hands of criminal aliens in 2005: 4,507
This number is calculated by taking 27% multiplied by the total number of murders in the U.S. in 2005 (.27 x 16,692 = 4,507)
This figure equals approximately 12 murders every day at the hands of criminal aliens (4,507 / 365 = 12)

Total number of people killed in the U.S. as a result of drunk-driving criminal aliens in 2005: 3,495
This number is calculated by taking 27% multiplied by the total number of alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 (.27 x 12,945 = 3,495)
This figure equals approximately 10 deaths every day at the hands of criminal alien drunk drivers (3,495 / 365 = 10)

Conclusions:
Twenty-five Americans die at the hands of criminal aliens every day in the U.S.
(12 murders + 10 drunk-driving fatalities + 3 negligent homicides = 25 deaths every day)

In the year 2005, criminal aliens killed more than three times the number of Americans murdered in the terrorist attacks of 9-11 died.
9,125 Americans died at the hands of criminal aliens in 2005, as compared to approximately 3,000 Americans who perished in 9-11.

Additional Statistics:
Federal prison criminal alien population:
Total number of criminal aliens in federal prison: 48,708
Mexico 63%, Colombia and Dominican Republic 7% each, Jamaica 4%, Cuba 3% and El Salvador 2%, remaining countries represent less than 2% each.
Source: Bureau of Prisons (BOP)

[Sandy Eggo]

SOMETIMES there is a reason why people have preconceptions, often based on nonfiction.

Nonfiction? Okay; Out of context? Definitely. 

When you consider that the US has over 300,000,000 legal citizens, the numbers cited are relatively small in comparison. Then you also have to consider that it's Americans who fill those numbers out to a whole number which would mean that we are committing the lionshare of the crime.

Basing preconceptions on those stats w/out considering the entire picture is just another method to justify racism. IMO.

[Monroe]

Nonfiction? Okay; Out of context? Definitely. 

When you consider that the US has over 300,000,000 legal citizens, the numbers cited are relatively small in comparison. Then you also have to consider that it's Americans who fill those numbers out to a whole number which would mean that we are committing the lionshare of the crime.

Basing preconceptions on those stats w/out considering the entire picture is just another method to justify racism. IMO.

You must add arithmetic to the things you do not understand.  For the rest of us, look at the numbers.

[Sandy Eggo]

You must add arithmetic to the things you do not understand.  For the rest of us, look at the numbers.

You can't consider the numbers without considering the math if you want an objective perspective.

[Monroe]

"27% of the total population in all U.S. prison systems (including city, county, state and federal) is composed of criminal aliens."

If 12 million illegal aliens are in the US, that's about 4% of the population.  Some of those aliens in jail may not be illegal but, still they are vastly over represented in the prison population.  More recent numbers may change some but the point is made.

Facts are stubborn things.

[Sandy Eggo]

Exactly, facts are stubborn things. Statistics are something else all together.  Since illegal aliens aren't documented, how exactly do they come up with a specific figure? They can't, so it can't be said w/any degree of certainty either way how much of the illegal population is represented.

You posted numbers attempting to justify this statement.

SOMETIMES there is a reason why people have preconceptions, often based on nonfiction.

The numbers don't support it. People have preconceptions against a specific population because of ignorance. The only way to explain prejudice is fear.  Period.  By posting numbers to support your statement you seem to be implying that it's acceptable to assume that all illegal aliens are here to commit crime just because there are some who have. Based on that logic then I guess we should be concerned about the number of American men in prison. Is that gender over represented? Does that mean that we should be leery and have preconceived notions that all men are just waiting to commit a crime?

[Henry Hawk]

the bottom line for me is.........illegal immigration NEEDS to be brought to a stop.....there is a reason it is called "illegal".  We need to send everyone who is NOT here legally, back home.  The whole process to allow immigrants and vistors into this country HAVE to be re-evaulated and modified to make the process more effecient, for EVERYONE.

[Dexter Morgan]

the bottom line for me is.........illegal immigration NEEDS to be brought to a stop.....there is a reason it is called "illegal".  We need to send everyone who is NOT here legally, back home.  The whole process to allow immigrants and vistors into this country HAVE to be re-evaulated and modified to make the process more effecient, for EVERYONE.

I agree HH. 

[me]

the bottom line for me is.........illegal immigration NEEDS to be brought to a stop.....there is a reason it is called "illegal".  We need to send everyone who is NOT here legally, back home.  The whole process to allow immigrants and vistors into this country HAVE to be re-evaulated and modified to make the process more effecient, for EVERYONE.

I agree also. 

[awol]

ahhhh, nevermind.

[Palehorse]

Don't worry. Pretty soon if things don't change we'll be so bad off that they'll go back of their own accord. Things in the 3rd world countries will look wonderful compared to us! More jobs, more opportunity. . .etc.

[American_Woman]

That's why we need borders.  Everybody stays on their own side... problem solved. 

I don't agree we should have to stay where we are "from." Just that when you intend on going outside of that have the proper paperwork proving who you really are,have proof(ID,SS#,complete address,numbers,birth certificate,shot records,..............) or stay home!