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WAS JESUS REALLY A PACIFIST?...

Started by Henry Hawk, October 30, 2006, 12:54:01 PM

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Henry Hawk

According to the dictionary a pacifist is absolute opposition to the use of violence, or even force, under any circumstances.

John 2:13  When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

This was clearly a violent and forceful measure used by Jesus to make his point.

Luke 22:36-38,   He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."   "That is enough," he replied.

Again, Jesus was preparing them to take care of themselves, to defend themselves physically.

Romans 12:17-21....17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. 20On the contrary: .."If your enemy is hungry, feed him; ....if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. ...In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Key word was "possible"...I believe we should always do everything possible to be at peace with others, it is not always "possible".

Let's start with that.....I do not think that God ever intended us to "pacifists" by definition....

I think there are times we must fight evil that exists in this world...though it should not be as aggressors for personal gain, but to defend evil or stopping evil from thriving....imo
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 - It all makes sense to me now...


"The future ain't what it used to be."– Yogi Berra

"Square roots are rarely found on any plant." FTW

Y

Quote from: Henry Hawk on October 30, 2006, 12:54:01 PM
According to the dictionary a pacifist is absolute opposition to the use of violence, or even force, under any circumstances.

One must be careful including unnecessary adjectives in a definition, and in wanting to use a "broad brush" to paint a picture that requires far more subtlety... ;)

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The noun pacifist has one meaning:

Someone opposed to violence as a means of settling disputes

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The adjective pacifist:

Inclined or disposed to peace; not quarrelsome or unruly

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Pacifism

Pacifism is the opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes. Pacifism covers a spectrum of views ranging from the belief that international disputes can and should be peacefully resolved, to absolute opposition to the use of violence, or even force, under any circumstances.

Pacifism may be based on principle or pragmatism. Principled (or Deontological) pacifism is based on beliefs that either war, deliberate lethal force, violence or any force or coercion is morally wrong. Pragmatic (or Consequential) pacifism does not hold to such an absolute principle but considers there to be better ways of resolving a dispute than war or considers the benefits of a war to be outweighed by the costs.

Dove or dovish are informal terms used, usually in politics, for people who prefer to avoid war or prefer war as a last resort. Some people termed dovish would not view their position as pacifist as they would consider war to be justifiable in some circumstances (see just war theory). The description refers to the story of Noah's Ark in which the dove came to symbolise the hope of salvation and peace. The opposite of a dove is a hawk or war hawk.

Some persons, who consider themselves pacifists, while opposing war, are not opposed to all use of coercion, physical force against people or destruction of property. Antimilitarists, for example, are specifically opposed to the modern nation-states' military institutions rather than to "violence" in general. Other pacifists follow principles of nonviolence, believing that only non-violent action is justifiable...

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©  Whamma-Jamma - all rights reserved

Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.  ;)

"You've probably noticed that opinion pollsters go out of their way to include as many morons as possible in surveys ... I think it's dangerous to inform morons about what their fellow morons are thinking. It only reinforces their opinions. And the one thing worse than a moron with an opinion is lots of them." -- Scott Adams

In other words: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.  ;)

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

"Hitler is gone, but if the majority of our fellow citizens are more susceptible to the slogans of fear and race hatred than to those of peaceful accommodation and mutual respect among human beings, our political liberties remain at the mercy of any eloquent and unscrupulous demagogue." -- S. I. Hayakawa

Y

An interesting aside (to my mind anyway... ;D  ):

The first two verses you quote, if one accepts the story as containing any fact, present evidence which might be argued that the label of "sedition" used by the authorities was applicable.
©  Whamma-Jamma - all rights reserved

Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.  ;)

"You've probably noticed that opinion pollsters go out of their way to include as many morons as possible in surveys ... I think it's dangerous to inform morons about what their fellow morons are thinking. It only reinforces their opinions. And the one thing worse than a moron with an opinion is lots of them." -- Scott Adams

In other words: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.  ;)

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

"Hitler is gone, but if the majority of our fellow citizens are more susceptible to the slogans of fear and race hatred than to those of peaceful accommodation and mutual respect among human beings, our political liberties remain at the mercy of any eloquent and unscrupulous demagogue." -- S. I. Hayakawa