For all: I am reading a book, very slowly, with lots of time to stop and think, and can't get around one phrase:
"I take a provincial view of religion."
I have not studied religion, and it's a subject I usually dodge. Having said that, the above phrase is a quote by scientist Richard Feynman in his book THE MEANING OF IT ALL. Feynman, who died in 1988, was a Nobel Prize winning physicist.
Anybody?
Quote from: libby on July 14, 2017, 05:29:48 PM
For all: I am reading a book, very slowly, with lots of time to stop and think, and can't get around one phrase:
"I take a provincial view of religion."
I have not studied religion, and it's a subject I usually dodge. Having said that, the above phrase is a quote by scientist Richard Feynman in his book THE MEANING OF IT ALL. Feynman, who died in 1988, was a Nobel Prize winning physicist.
Anybody?
I don't know the context of the quote. But maybe he is saying he takes a narrow viewpoint of religion? He doesn't believe it does much (if any) good? In my viewpoint, after being in a fundamentalist evangelical setting for most of my adult life, and being abused as a child in a religious household, I think religion sucks big time. I have come to the realization that the fundies are the ones who spout the most about their religion and are the ones who follow it the least. Lying seems to be their specialty, especially when it furthers themselves, or proves a so-called miracle. (I have first hand experience with both.) Judging others, even though they say they don't judge is also one of their specialties. I have found the ones that practice their religion quietly seem to be the most accepting of others, and act more like Jesus, loving people as they are and not judging them for their lifestyle. Not sure if that helps you in anyway, but my two cents. :smile:
Quote from: AbbyTC on July 14, 2017, 07:50:32 PM
I don't know the context of the quote. But maybe he is saying he takes a narrow viewpoint of religion? He doesn't believe it does much (if any) good? ....
You make some good points, so thanks!
I didn't know whether "provincial" meant he was once or still is Catholic.
As for context, it would be hard to isolate the exact beginning or end of his thoughts, but here goes:
"I have four reasons to think that moral values lie outside the scientific realm. First, in the past there were conflicts. The metaphysical positions have changed, and there have been practically no effects on the ethical views, so there must be a hint that there is an independence. Second, I have already pointed out that, I think at least, there are good men who practice Christian ethics and don't believe in the divinity of Christ. Incidentally, I forgot to say earlier that
I take a provincial view of religion."
Quote from: libby on July 14, 2017, 05:29:48 PM
For all: I am reading a book, very slowly, with lots of time to stop and think, and can't get around one phrase:
"I take a provincial view of religion."
I have not studied religion, and it's a subject I usually dodge. Having said that, the above phrase is a quote by scientist Richard Feynman in his book THE MEANING OF IT ALL. Feynman, who died in 1988, was a Nobel Prize winning physicist.
Anybody?
I assume the author means either that he views religion the same as the average individual living within a given geographic area, or that his views parallel those of the mainstream practitioners of a given faith.
I find that scientific types typically struggle with theology on most levels, but there are a number of them that still maintain a mainstream approach toward it. Fo a percentage of them the inner battle between religion and science is just as real as the world struggle has been for centuries.
More than likely he makes the statement in that way to indicate that for him he has found it impossible at times to allow scientific methods or data to overcome religious views on things . For example the creation of the universe by god in 7 days, and the scientific view of it all starting with a Big Bang.
I blame that conflict upon conditioning imposed by religious upbringing, and personally believe that religion and sciences decades long struggle toward claiming being right blinds both to the truth. Which is likely to be a combination of both, but with both being wrong at the same time on key facts.
Thank you, Palehorse. :smile: I'll get back to you.
Quote from: AbbyTC on July 14, 2017, 07:50:32 PM
I have come to the realization that the fundies are the ones who spout the most about their religion and are the ones who follow it the least.
I think both Y and I have had similar experiences along these lines in a business sense. In business dealings, the people who will screw you the hardest and fastest are those that tout their religiosity straight out of the gate. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on July 15, 2017, 12:51:23 PM
I think both Y and I have had similar experiences along these lines in a business sense. In business dealings, the people who will screw you the hardest and fastest are those that tout their religiosity straight out of the gate. :yes:
Yep, and if ya shake hands count your fingers when done and feel your back and I'm sure you know what I mean.
Quote from: libby on July 14, 2017, 05:29:48 PM
For all: I am reading a book, very slowly, with lots of time to stop and think, and can't get around one phrase:
"I take a provincial view of religion."
I have not studied religion, and it's a subject I usually dodge. Having said that, the above phrase is a quote by scientist Richard Feynman in his book THE MEANING OF IT ALL. Feynman, who died in 1988, was a Nobel Prize winning physicist.
Anybody?
Without reading all the accompanying text...
...I suspect he meant to infer 'about', and that one's locale, parentage, and culture were the determining factors in the creation of one's religious beliefs.
Your mileage may vary. :biggrin:
Quote from: Locutus on July 15, 2017, 12:51:23 PM
I think both Y and I have had similar experiences along these lines in a business sense. In business dealings, the people who will screw you the hardest and fastest are those that tout their religiosity straight out of the gate. :yes:
Uhm-hmm, they're hypocrites and ya' can't trust 'em.
In my life, I've yet to come across even one confessed religious person who wasn't a hypocrite - and usually a big one and blind to it. :biggrin:
Quote from: Y on July 17, 2017, 09:34:04 PM
Without reading all the accompanying text...
...I suspect he meant to infer 'about', and that one's locale, parentage, and culture were the determining factors in the creation of one's religious beliefs.
Your mileage may vary. :biggrin:
Hello Y. Good to see you. And thanks. Makes sense to me. :smile: The book is very complicated and I still have a way to go. Ironic that a book about quantum physics is taking me down a path, a way of thinking I've been heading toward most of my adult life.
Quote from: Palehorse on July 15, 2017, 12:44:28 AM
I assume the author means either that he views religion the same as the average individual living within a given geographic area, or that his views parallel those of the mainstream practitioners of a given faith.
I find that scientific types typically struggle with theology on most levels, but there are a number of them that still maintain a mainstream approach toward it. Fo a percentage of them the inner battle between religion and science is just as real as the world struggle has been for centuries.
More than likely he makes the statement in that way to indicate that for him he has found it impossible at times to allow scientific methods or data to overcome religious views on things . For example the creation of the universe by god in 7 days, and the scientific view of it all starting with a Big Bang.
I blame that conflict upon conditioning imposed by religious upbringing, and personally believe that religion and sciences decades long struggle toward claiming being right blinds both to the truth. Which is likely to be a combination of both, but with both being wrong at the same time on key facts.
Palehorse, I like what you wrote, especially the part about the Big Bang vs. Creation in 7 days by God. I remember thinking about that when I was in the last year or two of high school. Not so much choosing science over religion, but the fact that I could not then nor can I now imagine a beginning or end ... If God, who created Him? If the Big Bang, what lies beyond?
Quote from: Locutus on July 15, 2017, 12:51:23 PM
I think both Y and I have had similar experiences along these lines in a business sense. In business dealings, the people who will screw you the hardest and fastest are those that tout their religiosity straight out of the gate. :yes:
I agree, but I think more of my experiences have been personal, including family members.
Quote from: AbbyTC on July 14, 2017, 07:50:32 PM
I don't know the context of the quote. But maybe he is saying he takes a narrow viewpoint of religion? He doesn't believe it does much (if any) good? In my viewpoint, after being in a fundamentalist evangelical setting for most of my adult life, and being abused as a child in a religious household, I think religion sucks big time. I have come to the realization that the fundies are the ones who spout the most about their religion and are the ones who follow it the least. Lying seems to be their specialty, especially when it furthers themselves, or proves a so-called miracle. (I have first hand experience with both.) Judging others, even though they say they don't judge is also one of their specialties. I have found the ones that practice their religion quietly seem to be the most accepting of others, and act more like Jesus, loving people as they are and not judging them for their lifestyle. Not sure if that helps you in anyway, but my two cents. :smile:
Religion does suck. Many people as they get older they wake up and see all of the smoke, mirrors of religion is just plain bull shit. :yes: Most people have had religion put into their head at a young age where all of this magic of walking on water, virgin birth and all of the other lie as a fact. :yes: Once you look under the cover of this bull shit and the holy bible, these preachers have been lying to you to get the money. :trustme:
Quote from: The Troll on July 18, 2017, 05:07:27 PM
Religion does suck. Many people as they get older they wake up and see all of the smoke, mirrors of religion is just plain bull shit. :yes: Most people have had religion put into their head at a young age where all of this magic of walking on water, virgin birth and all of the other lie as a fact. :yes: Once you look under the cover of this bull shit and the holy bible, these preachers have been lying to you to get the money. :trustme:
It's amazing after you leave it and look back and think, "Geesh, how stupid was I?" Start them young and brainwash them into believing. :yes: What annoys me the most is how they will say some things are literal in the bible and other things aren't, all depending on how it fits them. And, of course, picking and choosing which verses to follow. Homosexuals are wrong to marry, but a "christian" can remarry even if the grounds for divorce weren't because of adultery. Too many of them skip that verse. If they followed that verse, a lot of christians would have to remain single.
Quote from: AbbyTC on July 18, 2017, 07:00:44 PM
. . . . If they followed that verse, a lot of christians would have to remain single.
And should. . . :yes: