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That is the message being sent by an increasing number of states in the US, after the POTUS has promised to take on 10k of them in an effort to relieve the overwhelming numbers of them flooding Germany, etc.

The Governors of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Florida, Texas, and other states have passed state legislation forbidding the refugees residency and entry within their states. By my last count, those states were all governed by Republicans. . . Many of them Bible-thumping Christians. . .

So let's talk about this. Remember that picture of the little Syrian refugee toddler that drowned and washed up on shore a few months back? Remember the righteous indignation that drove for many?

What's up now?

Quote from: Palehorse on November 16, 2015, 06:13:44 PM
That is the message being sent by an increasing number of states in the US, after the POTUS has promised to take on 10k of them in an effort to relieve the overwhelming numbers of them flooding Germany, etc.

The Governors of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Florida, Texas, and other states have passed state legislation forbidding the refugees residency and entry within their states. By my last count, those states were all governed by Republicans. . . Many of them Bible-thumping Christians. . .

So let's talk about this. Remember that picture of the little Syrian refugee toddler that drowned and washed up on shore a few months back? Remember the righteous indignation that drove for many?

What's up now?

  In IMO, keep out all Muslims and the Syrians too.  They are bad news for any other religions.   If you catch any members of ISIS kill them all.    :hanged: :behead: :devil4: :dead:

Rick Scott is a Republican, but a Bible thumper he ain't.  :no:  ;D

In all seriousness though, Europe and the rest of the West turning on the refugees is playing right into ISIS' playbook.   

Quote from: Locutus on November 16, 2015, 06:30:03 PM
Rick Scott is a Republican, but a Bible thumper he ain't.  :no:  ;D

Thus the term "many of them" and not "all of them"  :big grin:

  Maybe we can get god to talk to our leaders and tell them what he told Joshua when he took Jericho.  Take all of our troops to the middle East and kill all of the men, women, children, oxen, sheep.  But bring back all of the gold, precious metals and "oil" and bring it back to our temples.    :wink: :smile:  :haha:

Don't forget the virgins!  You must never forget the virgins!   ;D

Quote from: Locutus on November 16, 2015, 06:38:59 PM
In all seriousness though, Europe and the rest of the West turning on the refugees is playing right into ISIS' playbook.

My opinion exactly. Yes, we run the risk of what happened in Paris could happen here; but the reality is we are running that risk right now. And it isn't just from foreign insurgents covertly conspiring among themselves.

This nation is full of domestic extremists just chomping at the bit to do what ISIS is doing, right here. US Citizens, born and raised, that would love nothing more than to inflict similar terror upon their fellow countrymen for some similar reasons.

Letting 10k Syrians into this country isn't going to make it any worse; or better for anyone but those amongst them that truly are seeking safe asylum. Or safer at any rate.

Instead of disarming this nation's citizens we ought to be teaching them responsible firearm ownership and use. That would at least serve to somewhat squelch the homegrown thugs from their home invading, raping, and pillaging of their fellow citizens, and raise the odds that at least some percentage of the crowds the terrorists target might be armed and able to stop, or impede their mass killings.

At the very least we shouldn't be eliminating the individual citizens rights to keep and bear arms during times like these. In MY opinion. But then I have been around firearms my entire life. . . And my father taught me to respect them, use them, and to understand them; and then Uncle Sam taught me how to effectively use them in an efficient and safer manner. . .  :wink:

Here is one voice of reason that's on the Fox News Channel.  Shepard Smith came from my local market in South Florida and found his way to FNC many moons ago.  This is a brief commentary containing his view on the refugees.

https://www.youtube.com/v/SUHKi0qV99w

Quote from: Palehorse on November 16, 2015, 06:13:44 PM

The Governors of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Florida, Texas, and other states have passed state legislation forbidding the refugees residency and entry within their states. By my last count, those states were all governed by Republicans. . . Many of them Bible-thumping Christians. . .

The whole poll is really meaningless though, insofar as the question is stated.  The federal government has plenary power to accept refugees into this country regardless of what state legislators or governors say about it.  Immigration is, and always has been, under the purview of the federal government. 

Bottom line is, the governors may not like it, but there's little they can do about it. 

Maybe we should take in families. I don't know what the numbers are between women and children and young men. Perhaps that would be the way to go.

Quote from: Locutus on November 16, 2015, 10:23:58 PM
The whole poll is really meaningless though, insofar as the question is stated.  The federal government has plenary power to accept refugees into this country regardless of what state legislators or governors say about it.  Immigration is, and always has been, under the purview of the federal government. 

Bottom line is, the governors may not like it, but there's little they can do about it.

True, however they can and will make it a lengthy and highly difficult process along the way. At this point about half of this nations governors have said no. All but 1 are republican. They've had 8 years of experience in making things difficult and saying no.

Quote from: Anne on November 17, 2015, 12:35:19 AM
Maybe we should take in families. I don't know what the numbers are between women and children and young men. Perhaps that would be the way to go.

I would be afraid they would be the ones coming after us, maybe not the young children, the real young children but the others.

Quote from: The Troll on November 16, 2015, 06:48:51 PM
Take all of our troops to the middle East and kill all of the men, women, children, oxen, sheep.

Yes, by all means play right into their apocalyptic narrative and boost their ability to recruit.  Sounds like a wonderful plan.   :rolleyes:

My only response it that we now live in a time where we MUST allow  Homeland Security and/or the FBI to properly vet ALL refugees coming from the terrorism hotspots such as Syria and Iraq...and according to the Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Michael McCaul, he says his reports have clearly indicated that ISIS has vowed to use the refugee crisis to infiltrate western Europe and eventually, the United States.

So WHY in the world would we even WANT to allow this.  Rather, why don't we be a leader and call for NATO to declare war on ISIS, set up a "no-fly" zone in Syria.  Allow all refugees to go an area, where several countries from NATO will be there supplying protection, food and shelter.

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 17, 2015, 09:24:49 AM
So WHY in the world would we even WANT to allow this.

That's exactly what they said about Jewish refugees right before WWII. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/17/what-americans-thought-of-jewish-refugees-on-the-eve-of-world-war-ii/)

Quote from: Exterminator on November 17, 2015, 03:24:11 PM
That's exactly what they said about Jewish refugees right before WWII. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/17/what-americans-thought-of-jewish-refugees-on-the-eve-of-world-war-ii/)

Well, I pretty sure that the Jews were NOT blowing the hell out of people, cutting off the heads of people or shouting out Death to America. Really?  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Henry Hawk on November 17, 2015, 03:35:55 PM
Well, I pretty sure that the Jews were NOT blowing the hell out of people, cutting off the heads of people or shouting out Death to America. Really?  :rolleyes:

Did you even bother to read the link?  Do you have any proof that any of the Syrian refugees are the people you describe?

Quote from: Exterminator on November 17, 2015, 03:45:57 PM
Do you have any proof that any of the Syrian refugees are the people you describe?

Do you have any proof they are NOT the people I describe?  All I am saying is, lets slow this thing down, and check and see WHO is coming in here before we just willy nilly bring in folks we don't know anything about, from a country where people like those who killed in France actually exist.

"Of course we want to keep terrorists out of our country, but let's not punish the victims of ISIS for the sins of ISIS..."   

Leith Anderson
President
National Association of Evangelicals

This man was the son of a Syrian Migrant that fled the country under political unrest. . .

http://secondnexus.com/social/syrian-migrants-a-famous-child-resurfaces/?ts_pid=916&utm_content=inf_10_1164_2&tse_id=INF_45f1e1f6f24c4bf2aba1b4137d8e2a18 (http://secondnexus.com/social/syrian-migrants-a-famous-child-resurfaces/?ts_pid=916&utm_content=inf_10_1164_2&tse_id=INF_45f1e1f6f24c4bf2aba1b4137d8e2a18)

Odds are you may very well be using at least one of the products of his company right now.

I am.  I didn't even have to click on your link to know who it was either.  :wink:

Quote from: Locutus on November 18, 2015, 07:29:39 PM
I am.  I didn't even have to click on your link to know who it was either.  :wink:

I knew it too, but never thought to post that until someone I knew did it this morning within another venue. . .  :yes:

Here's a lil' something to chew on...

One shouldn't forget the major role the proliferation of arms plays in all the hot spots in the world.

And with that, goodnight all.

Quote from: Y on November 18, 2015, 08:18:53 PM


One shouldn't forget the major role the proliferation of arms plays in all the hot spots in the world.

Proliferation of which we're largely responsible. 

  All of this Muslim shit reminds me of a story I heard years a go.   :yes:  This man was walking down the road on a winter's day.  He seen a snake lying along the road almost frozen stiff from the cold.  The man felt sorry for the poor thing and put him in his warm jacket pocket to warm him up.  Well, he almost got to town and he reached into his pocket to see how the snake was.  He pull him out and the snake was all warm and alive.  The snake promptly stuck his fangs deep into the mans hand.  The man said, why did you do that, I just saved your life.  The snake said, well you knew I was a snake when you picked me up.  :yes: :rolleyes:

  Well, this is what some of these Muslims will do when they get into our country, stick their fangs into our helping hands.    :yes: :rant:

Quote from: The Troll on November 18, 2015, 10:56:41 PM

  All of this Muslim shit reminds me of a story I heard years a go.   :yes:  This man was walking down the road on a winter's day.  He seen a snake lying along the road almost frozen stiff from the cold.  The man felt sorry for the poor thing and put him in his warm jacket pocket to warm him up.  Well, he almost got to town and he reached into his pocket to see how the snake was.  He pull him out and the snake was all warm and alive.  The snake promptly stuck his fangs deep into the mans hand.  The man said, why did you do that, I just saved your life.  The snake said, well you knew I was a snake when you picked me up.  :yes: :rolleyes:

  Well, this is what some of these Muslims will do when they get into our country, stick their fangs into our helping hands.    :yes: :rant:

Not a bad analogy Troll, not bad at all...

Quote from: Y on November 18, 2015, 08:18:53 PM
Here's a lil' something to chew on...

One shouldn't forget the major role the proliferation of arms plays in all the hot spots in the world.

And with that, goodnight all.

When firearms are outlawed then only outlaws will have firearms; and the rest of us become sheep to the slaughter. (Which in my opinion is part of the problem in this nation).

Present day in this nation, those who show no propensity toward abiding by the firearm legislation already in place, can pretty much impose their will upon the masses. Home invasions, armed robbery, etc., are all undertaken with little to no consideration toward their targets being armed themselves; and the majority of the time they are right. And when they are wrong they are either dead, or sent for a stretch in the sin bin, only to get out and re-arm themselves within hours of being released.

Arms proliferation can mean a virtual cornucopia of things, so to be clear I am not endorsing fully automatic firearms being made available to the masses; not anymore than nuclear weapons and heavy artillery are available to the law abiding citizenry present state. Some things are just overkill and certainly not necessary to protect one's life, family, and liberty against an armed thug. To that end I would agree that regulation of such armaments needs to be highly restricted. But the reality is that they are and when they are found amongst the general population they are in the possession of those who pay the laws no mind in the first place.

Moreover, accessories like silencers. . . What is the purpose of these things if not insidious in nature? The fact is they can be readily owned by privates citizens legally today, if they go through the process to obtain licensing. THAT is ludicrous, but its just a case of the government trying to realize revenue over something they cannot control when any garage machinist or handyman can make one easily using components as benign as a 2 liter Pepsi bottle, some textiles, and strategically placed venting holes. (Yes it's that easy).

I recall a time when I first encountered an individual that owned several machined silencers. We were in his basement and he produced a 9 MM Berretta that had its barrel threaded. When I asked him what that was about, he pulled a silencer from his pocket, screwed it on, and handed the weapon to me and instructed me to fire it at the target at the end of his basement range. I did. The sound of that projectile striking the wall was louder than the highly absent report of the weapon. Even the slide was louder. And he risked 25 years to life in prison just by owning it at the time. Not so much these days.

The fact is our government cannot administer the laws already in place in this country surrounding firearm ownership. If they could, then at minimum 50-60% of the domestic "mass shooting events" we see would have been prevented because those perpetrators would not have been able to legally purchase those firearms or ammunition. But they can't. And even if they could, the black market ensures that even those who are precluded from legally owning firearms can readily obtain them. And the government is absolutely useless in trying to stop it.

It needs to be a legal and personal choice available to all that meet the legal requirements that are in place this day. And if they are not working, (and they aren't), then one only need to look no further than our elected officials to see why. They enact legislation without any thought or consideration toward the resources required to properly administer said legislation; effectively and consistently. And when the general population squalls over it's failure instead of obtaining and putting in the infrastructure necessary, their answer is to create even MORE legislation that will also have zero impact upon those who pay the laws no attention in the first place.

What did Einstein say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? Yeah. . . INSANITY!

Here's a good read about what it takes a refugee to get into the U.S.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/syrian-refugees-vetting-process-united-states

Quote from: Palehorse on November 18, 2015, 07:23:16 PM
This man was the son of a Syrian Migrant that fled the country under political unrest. . .

http://secondnexus.com/social/syrian-migrants-a-famous-child-resurfaces/?ts_pid=916&utm_content=inf_10_1164_2&tse_id=INF_45f1e1f6f24c4bf2aba1b4137d8e2a18 (http://secondnexus.com/social/syrian-migrants-a-famous-child-resurfaces/?ts_pid=916&utm_content=inf_10_1164_2&tse_id=INF_45f1e1f6f24c4bf2aba1b4137d8e2a18)

Odds are you may very well be using at least one of the products of his company right now.

Those were different circumstances and there wasn't the danger to this country there is now. How many of those coming now are Muslim who are among those coming now?  You might want to watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/v/KXGE2eBUdlQ

Quote from: me on November 27, 2015, 12:55:40 AM
Those were different circumstances and there wasn't the danger to this country there is now. How many of those coming now are Muslim who are among those coming now?  You might want to watch this.

. . .

There is always a danger to this country; always has been and always will.

For years now I have been advocating the removal of the plaque that sits at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty entitled "The New Colossus", and I believe the actions of this Nation in the past 6 weeks more than underscores my reasons for doing so.

This nation has always been a melting pot of all races, creeds, colors, religions, and sexual orientations. It has historically been the nation that the world looked to because of this, but not anymore.

Now we seem to want to close our boarders, deport everyone that isn't a natural born citizen of this country, and sit like Scrooge within our comparatively tiny little world and watch the rest of the globe sink into Anarchy. All as we sit hypocritically celebrating the win of refugees over the Native American peoples of this land only yesterday. . .

That very approach was the downfall of Rome and other great nations throughout the history of this world.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I think part of the problem we have as a country in general is the perception that immigrants want to change our way of life rather than adapt or assimilate into our way of life. Whether this is real or not is another question. I also think this attitude applies more strongly to illegal (undocumented) immigrants and immigrants from countries that shout "death to America!". This is my opinion.

Quote from: Palehorse on November 27, 2015, 10:40:49 AM
There is always a danger to this country; always has been and always will.

For years now I have been advocating the removal of the plaque that sits at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty entitled "The New Colossus", and I believe the actions of this Nation in the past 6 weeks more than underscores my reasons for doing so.

This nation has always been a melting pot of all races, creeds, colors, religions, and sexual orientations. It has historically been the nation that the world looked to because of this, but not anymore.

Now we seem to want to close our boarders, deport everyone that isn't a natural born citizen of this country, and sit like Scrooge within our comparatively tiny little world and watch the rest of the globe sink into Anarchy. All as we sit hypocritically celebrating the win of refugees over the Native American peoples of this land only yesterday. . .

That very approach was the downfall of Rome and other great nations throughout the history of this world.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

One of the major problems now is they don't want to assimalate the want to change our ways and keep theirs. Hell, the Muslims, which is a religion not a race, want us to adopt Shiria law for them. Do you want your wife or granddaughters subject to that?

Quote from: me on November 27, 2015, 11:28:05 AM
One of the major problems now is they don't want to assimalate the want to change our ways and keep theirs. Hell, the Muslims, which is a religion not a race, want us to adopt Shiria law for them. Do you want your wife or granddaughters subject to that?

I personally know several families that are Muslim. Not one of them imposes "Shiria law" upon anyone, nor do they ask for it to be the law of this nation.

Your problem is your proclivity to adjudicate all based upon the actions of the few. (Surprise)  :roll eyes:

WHERE in this nation, do we have anyone being judged by the government, (city, state, or federal), by anything other than the laws of the land in which we live? WHERE?

"The Sky Is Falling! The Sky Is Falling". . .

Quote from: Palehorse on November 29, 2015, 06:46:04 PM
I personally know several families that are Muslim. Not one of them imposes "Shiria law" upon anyone, nor do they ask for it to be the law of this nation.

Your problem is your proclivity to adjudicate all based upon the actions of the few. (Surprise)  :roll eyes:

WHERE in this nation, do we have anyone being judged by the government, (city, state, or federal), by anything other than the laws of the land in which we live? WHERE?

"The Sky Is Falling! The Sky Is Falling". . .

Are you talking Jewish, the race, or Muslim, the religion? A lot of people think if a person is a jew they are Muslim. Not saying you do but it is sometimes what some people assume. They could possibly be like that woman in the video I posted, former Muslims. There is also a difference there.

Quote from: me on November 29, 2015, 07:41:01 PM
Are you talking Jewish, the race, or Muslim, the religion? A lot of people think if a person is a jew they are Muslim. Not saying you do but it is sometimes what some people assume. They could possibly be like that woman in the video I posted, former Muslims. There is also a difference there.

Non-responsive. . .

Again:

Quote from: Palehorse on November 29, 2015, 06:46:04 PM
I personally know several families that are Muslim. Not one of them imposes "Shiria law" upon anyone, nor do they ask for it to be the law of this nation.

Your problem is your proclivity to adjudicate all based upon the actions of the few. (Surprise)  :roll eyes:

WHERE in this nation, do we have anyone being judged by the government, (city, state, or federal), by anything other than the laws of the land in which we live? WHERE?

"The Sky Is Falling! The Sky Is Falling". . .

Rot-Roh!

The Catholic Archdiocese went against ol' Anti-Christ Pence and moved a Syrian Refugee Family into Indiana today.

And now the Anti-Christ has Holy water on his face and is "respectfully disagreeing" with the decision of the church. (And using it as a stump from which to spew his position of discrimination.)

Quote from: Palehorse on December 08, 2015, 05:13:31 PM
Rot-Roh!

The Catholic Archdiocese went against ol' Anti-Christ Pence and moved a Syrian Refugee Family into Indiana today.

And now the Anti-Christ has Holy water on his face and is "respectfully disagreeing" with the decision of the church. (And using it as a stump from which to spew his position of discrimination.)

Yeah, the bishop gave a big FU to Pence...LOL!

Quote from: Exterminator on December 09, 2015, 09:43:24 AM
Yeah, the bishop gave a big FU to Pence...LOL!

:yes: :biggrin:

So one of the plethora of "big" things bolstering Trump in his extremist political platform these days, is his "close the door to all muslim" policy surrounding immigration. It seems to ring a bell with a lot of "americans", or at least those being polled. Anyway, as it relates to the topic of this thread. . .

I get that fear. I get that feeling of insecurity inherent to American life these days. I also get the intense desire to make it go away.

What I do not get is how willingly a sector of this nation is to play that card; again.

We interred Japanese Americans during WW II. Wrongly so. And we've closed the doors before upon other nationalities in the past. Wrongfully. And this nation paid a price both times for it's heavy handedness.

My position on this is we cannot do it, but IF we do then it must be complete closure to all non-American Citizens. Period. No more immigration. No more visitational Visas. Close the damed boarders to everyone. Period. If we're going to close the boarders then close them to all or do not close them at all.

Now this isn't something I think we should be doing at all, but we cannot single out any race, religion, or nationality for closure. It is profiling at its worst, and closing our boarders is not a subject this nation should even be discussing for so many reasons; chief among them is the hypocrisy it represents.

How many of us looked down upon Europe for closing their boarders to Syrian refugees and allowing women and children to drown of it's shorelines, starve, and die at the hands of the ongoing conflicts there? We shamed them into opening their doors, and we're going to close ours? Hypocrites!

This crap is already here, and being undertaken by some of our own citizens. And we want to disarm everyone? (Except of course those who have no plan what-so-ever to comply with the laws in the first place).

Your local LEOs and public safety officials are ill-prepared to come to your rescue because someone brought a weapon or explosive device to your place of employment, or to the dining facility, sporting event, or concert hall you and your family are attending; and the reality is you will be left to fend for yourselves for 30 minutes or more that will seem like hours, and there is a very high likelihood that you and / or your loved ones may be killed or maimed well before they get there. And it will be quite some time before they get inside and the safety of those that remain can be restored, and assistance for the injured be provided.

You don't want to carry a firearm? Fine. Don't. I don't really care if you do or don't. But I personally will do everything I can to stall, stop, and fight against these idiots as a means to protect myself, my loved ones, and you if you happen to be inside a place I am at and something like this goes down.

I may still die, but I guarantee you one or more of them will die with me, increasing the odds that those that remain will be able to escape or live.

I can live with that. Can you?