Anyone have any comments on the situation surrounding Tony Stewart on Saturday night?
Quote from: Locutus on August 11, 2014, 12:22:17 PM
Anyone have any comments on the situation surrounding Tony Stewart on Saturday night?
Very sad situation. The young driver should have NEVER left his car. He put himself in danger. I would like to think that Tony would NEVER have done anything to hurt this guy on purpose. I am a Tony Stewart fan, though I am not much of a NASCAR fan, I think he is a very interesting person. He can be a hothead.
I hope this serves as a reminder to all in the driving world, just how dangerous those cars are.
I don't follow NASCAR at all, but I have heard that Stewart can be somewhat of a hothead. After watching the video several times, I think that Stewart clearly punched the accelerator as he approached Ward. I don't think that his intent was to hit him, but the bottom line is, the kid is dead because of him. Those cars swing out to the right when the accelerator is pressed, and Stewart should have remembered that and not accelerated as he approached Ward.
It will be interesting to see if any charges are filed against him. They're saying there was no criminal intent, and I believe that, but you don't have to have criminal intent to be charged with involuntary manslaughter.
Elements of Involuntary Manslaughter (from findlaw.com)
Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:
1. Someone was killed as a result of act by the defendant.
2. The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
3. The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.
Do those three fit the bill in this situation? Maybe.
For those who haven't seen the video, here it is. The fatal even happens just past the 30 second mark.
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZvziKTnjgZA
Quote from: Locutus on August 11, 2014, 12:35:32 PM
After watching the video several times, I think that Stewart clearly punched the accelerator as he approached Ward. I don't think that his intent was to hit him, but the bottom line is, the kid is dead because of him. Those cars swing out to the right when the accelerator is pressed, and Stewart should have remembered that and not accelerated as he approached Ward.
I am quite certain that Tony KNOWS his car swings to the right when accelerating. From some stories I have heard, the reason he accelerated was to try to make his vehicle move to the right......that is how the turn quickly, not by turning the steering wheel, but bumping the gas to turn. I think he had a split second decision to try to avoid hitting him. As it turned out, it wasn't enough.
I agree, the kid is dead because of Stewart....but for now, until I hear more, I gotta side with my heart, and believe this is just a horrible accident.
It may very well be just a horrible accident, and as I've said, I don't think Stewart's intent was to harm or even to scare him. However, involuntary manslaughter charges can follow "horrible accidents" if prosecutors determine that numbers 1 thorough 3 in the above post fit the situation.
This could, more likely than not, also hit Stewart in the pocketbook insofar as sponsorship dollars are concerned.
Quote from: Locutus on August 11, 2014, 01:02:26 PM
It may very well be just a horrible accident, and as I've said, I don't think Stewart's intent was to harm or even to scare him. However, involuntary manslaughter charges can follow "horrible accidents" if prosecutors determine that numbers 1 thorough 3 in the above post fit the situation.
This could, more likely than not, also hit Stewart in the pocketbook insofar as sponsorship dollars are concerned.
I think only one of those fit:
1. Someone was killed as a result of act by the defendant.
The other two, I find hard to fit into this mess.
It could hit his pocketbook, but I think, it will soon be over.
If I hit the guard rail on I-465 then get out of my car wearing mostly black at night and walk into the lanes of oncoming traffic to chastise the other drivers and I get hit, it is my fault...period.
Yep. The kid had no business doing what he did especially on a dim track.
The kid looked like he was a hot head too. Anyone in their right mind would not get out of their race car and run out into traffic, you wouldn't see that at the Indianapolis 500. Just plain dumb and he paid one hell of a price for a one split second mistake on his part. It's just part of racing and it's really a shame that he had to die at such a young age, 20 years old. :'(
Quote from: Locutus on August 11, 2014, 12:35:32 PM
I don't follow NASCAR at all, but I have heard that Stewart can be somewhat of a hothead. After watching the video several times, I think that Stewart clearly punched the accelerator as he approached Ward. I don't think that his intent was to hit him, but the bottom line is, the kid is dead because of him. Those cars swing out to the right when the accelerator is pressed, and Stewart should have remembered that and not accelerated as he approached Ward.
. . .
After some input today from several local drivers of sprint cars, that I happen to work with, I have to weigh in and say that given the realities of what it is like to drive a sprint car, I am very much inclined to say that Stewart holds absolutely no fault in this tragic event, and unfortunately the dead driver, Ward, carries full responsibility for what happened.
1. Sprint car drivers are instructed to stay with their vehicles until emergency crews arrive. In the event they have to leave the vehicle due to fire, they are instructed to do so with extreme caution, and to avoid the flow of traffic.
2. #1 is an advisory policy, not a rule.
3. Drivers under caution are instructed to stay in a line that best avoids the wreck, and to reduce speed. (Stewart was traveling at the same speed as everyone else once the yellow came out.)
4. The wings on these cars severely obstruct the view around any vehicle ahead of you, especially to the right of said vehicle. (This was a unanimous statement from every driver I spoke to today. They tell me the wing is intentionally angled to the right for aerodynamic reasons.) It is highly likely that Stewart did not see the man until the very last possible second.
The "right hand" swerve seen in the video above, can be absolutely attributed to the fact Ward was hit by the right rear-wheel and wing of the vehicle, forcing the vehicle to swerve right as a result of the obstruction his body presented while being struck, and not from any perceived acceleration at all. A number of the drivers I spoke to today stated that they had experienced the very same thing when running over wreckage; the car swerves toward the side you run something over with).
So despite appearances, I tend to rely upon the experience of individuals that have personally raced, or race, sprint cars and have for decades. There isn't a one of them that places a single bit of blame upon Stewart for what transpired; and several of them knew Ward personally as he has raced against their sons who also drive sprint cars of their own.
This is a case of a young man failing to remember his training and allowing his emotions to rule his actions, which lead to his death. A sad situation that should serve as a harsh lesson to every single driver that engages in the sport; and to those that serve as role models to them within NASCAR as well. (There is more than a little irony in the fact this young man was emulating Stewarts own antics within his NASCAR career; but it is just that, irony, and not applicable to what transpired in this case).
In no way do I see this even coming within the realm of possibility surrounding meeting the requirements for involuntary manslaughter charges being filed. Not without a lot of histrionics and media spin. . .
Some of the drivers I conferred with are owners/drivers for the following teams:
https://www.facebook.com/ColeKetchamRacing/photos_stream?tab=photos_stream (https://www.facebook.com/ColeKetchamRacing/photos_stream?tab=photos_stream)
https://www.facebook.com/donnie.adams.7165 (https://www.facebook.com/donnie.adams.7165)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/166868260053242/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/166868260053242/)
https://www.facebook.com/RSRacingPhotos (https://www.facebook.com/RSRacingPhotos)
While I personally don't follow racing as avidly as some others may, I do find myself in an unexpected position in this case, with a heavy presence of owners/drivers among the workforce at my place of employment, and consider them to be resident experts on the subject. And while I didn't personally go out to elicit opinions on the topic today, it wasn't necessary. The talk was about this event very early this morning, and I was present for a lot of it; and asked questions.
NASCAR has always allowed the drivers to get out of the cars after a wreck. I would imagine that NASCAR will be changing these rules very quickly but sad that a young driver had to lose his life to get this done. Yes, Tony can be a hothead but he is know different than other drivers.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on August 11, 2014, 07:09:11 PM
NASCAR has always allowed the drivers to get out of the cars after a wreck. I would imagine that NASCAR will be changing these rules very quickly but sad that a young driver had to lose his life to get this done. Yes, Tony can be a hothead but he is know different than other drivers.
Do they allow drivers to run out in traffic to raise hell with another driver? That should be a given. :yes:
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on August 11, 2014, 07:09:11 PM
NASCAR has always allowed the drivers to get out of the cars after a wreck. I would imagine that NASCAR will be changing these rules very quickly but sad that a young driver had to lose his life to get this done. Yes, Tony can be a hothead but he is know different than other drivers.
Insurance rates for all drivers, pit crews, and racing teams, as well as racing facilities, will double as of this morning. That alone will force the governing bodies of these racing venues to enact policies that forbid such actions; and hefty fines for those who ignore the rules. :yes:
They'll need to react quickly to cover their asses against civil lawsuits, and to raise revenue to pay for the insurance premium increases.
(Interesting note: In the state in which the Ward incident transpired, civil law allows for a suit to be filed, but there is no allowance for monetary compensation given a positive verdict.)
Quote from: The Troll on August 11, 2014, 07:13:40 PM
Do they allow drivers to run out in traffic to raise hell with another driver? That should be a given. :yes:
I can tell you don't understand what I posted. Here let me dumb it down for you, NASCAR has always allowed the drivers to get out of the vehicles after a wreck and confront the one who caused the wreck. It is a stupid practice and one that NASCAR needs to put an end too.
Quote from: Palehorse on August 11, 2014, 07:32:19 PM
Insurance rates for all drivers, pit crews, and racing teams, as well as racing facilities, will double as of this morning. That alone will force the governing bodies of these racing venues to enact policies that forbid such actions; and hefty fines for those who ignore the rules. :yes:
They'll need to react quickly to cover their asses against civil lawsuits, and to raise revenue to pay for the insurance premium increases.
(Interesting note: In the state in which the Ward incident transpired, civil law allows for a suit to be filed, but there is no allowance for monetary compensation given a positive verdict.)
Yep. It will happen.
Quote from: Palehorse on August 11, 2014, 05:38:55 PM
After some input today from several local drivers of sprint cars, that I happen to work with, I have to weigh in and say that given the realities of what it is like to drive a sprint car, I am very much inclined to say that Stewart holds absolutely no fault in this tragic event, and unfortunately the dead driver, Ward, carries full responsibility for what happened.
1. Sprint car drivers are instructed to stay with their vehicles until emergency crews arrive. In the event they have to leave the vehicle due to fire, they are instructed to do so with extreme caution, and to avoid the flow of traffic.
2. #1 is an advisory policy, not a rule.
3. Drivers under caution are instructed to stay in a line that best avoids the wreck, and to reduce speed. (Stewart was traveling at the same speed as everyone else once the yellow came out.)
4. The wings on these cars severely obstruct the view around any vehicle ahead of you, especially to the right of said vehicle. (This was a unanimous statement from every driver I spoke to today. They tell me the wing is intentionally angled to the right for aerodynamic reasons.) It is highly likely that Stewart did not see the man until the very last possible second.
The "right hand" swerve seen in the video above, can be absolutely attributed to the fact Ward was hit by the right rear-wheel and wing of the vehicle, forcing the vehicle to swerve right as a result of the obstruction his body presented while being struck, and not from any perceived acceleration at all. A number of the drivers I spoke to today stated that they had experienced the very same thing when running over wreckage; the car swerves toward the side you run something over with).
So despite appearances, I tend to rely upon the experience of individuals that have personally raced, or race, sprint cars and have for decades. There isn't a one of them that places a single bit of blame upon Stewart for what transpired; and several of them knew Ward personally as he has raced against their sons who also drive sprint cars of their own.
This is a case of a young man failing to remember his training and allowing his emotions to rule his actions, which lead to his death. A sad situation that should serve as a harsh lesson to every single driver that engages in the sport; and to those that serve as role models to them within NASCAR as well. (There is more than a little irony in the fact this young man was emulating Stewarts own antics within his NASCAR career; but it is just that, irony, and not applicable to what transpired in this case).
In no way do I see this even coming within the realm of possibility surrounding meeting the requirements for involuntary manslaughter charges being filed. Not without a lot of histrionics and media spin. . .
Some of the drivers I conferred with are owners/drivers for the following teams:
https://www.facebook.com/ColeKetchamRacing/photos_stream?tab=photos_stream (https://www.facebook.com/ColeKetchamRacing/photos_stream?tab=photos_stream)
https://www.facebook.com/donnie.adams.7165 (https://www.facebook.com/donnie.adams.7165)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/166868260053242/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/166868260053242/)
https://www.facebook.com/RSRacingPhotos (https://www.facebook.com/RSRacingPhotos)
While I personally don't follow racing as avidly as some others may, I do find myself in an unexpected position in this case, with a heavy presence of owners/drivers among the workforce at my place of employment, and consider them to be resident experts on the subject. And while I didn't personally go out to elicit opinions on the topic today, it wasn't necessary. The talk was about this event very early this morning, and I was present for a lot of it; and asked questions.
Thanks for sharing.......well put! :yes: I think you nailed it perfectly.
http://www.motorsport.com/sprint/news/kevin-ward-appears-to-have-violated-no-rules-in-confronting-stewart/
NASCAR has no rules on getting out of your vehicle and they should. It is just common sense as of dangers involved in being on the track.
Quote from: Purplelady1040 on August 11, 2014, 08:03:41 PM
I can tell you don't understand what I posted. Here let me dumb it down for you, NASCAR has always allowed the drivers to get out of the vehicles after a wreck and confront the one who caused the wreck. It is a stupid practice and one that NASCAR needs to put an end too.
:pirate: :baaa: :dam: :turk: :biggrin: