WAS THE UNITED STATES FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION?
Recently, many authors have debated whether or not the United States of America was founded as a Christian nation. I wish to provide a few historical quotes from our Founding Era that lend credence to the supposition that we indeed were founded as a Christian nation.
Granted, God is not mentioned in the Constitution, but He is mentioned in every major document leading up to the final wording of the Constitution. For example, Connecticut is still known as the "Constitution State" because its colonial constitution was used as a model for the United States Constitution. Its first words were: "For as much as it has pleased the almighty God by the wise disposition of His Divine Providence..."
Most of the fifty-five Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution were members of orthodox Christian churches and many were even evangelical Christians. The first official act in the First Continental Congress was to open in Christian prayer, which ended in these words: "...the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son, our Savior. Amen". Sounds Christian to me.
Ben Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention, said: "...God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"
John Adams stated so eloquently during this period of time that; "The general principles on which the fathers achieved Independence were ... the general principles of Christianity ... I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that the general principles of Christianity are as etemal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
Later, John Quincy Adams answered the question as to why, next to Christmas, was the Fourth of July this most joyous and venerated day in the United States. He answered: "...Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?" Sounds like the founding of a Christian nation to me. John Quincy Adams went on to say that the biggest victory won in the American Revolution was that Christian principles and civil government would be tied together In what he called an "indissoluble" bond. The Founding Fathers understood that religion was inextricably part of our nation and government. The practice of the Christian religion in our government was not only welcomed but encouraged.
The intent of the First Amendment was well understood during the founding of our country. The First Amendment was not to keep religion out of government. It was to keep Government from establishing a 'National Denomination" (like the Church of England). As early as 1799 a court declared: "By our form of government the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed on the same equal footing." Even in the letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Baptists of Danbury Connecticut (from which we derive the term "separation of Church and State") he made it quite clear that the wall of separation was to insure that Government would never interfere with religious activities because religious freedom came from God, not from Government.
Even George Washington who certainly knew the intent of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, since he presided over their formation, said in his "Farewell Address": "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars." Sure doesn't sound like Washington was trying to separate religion and politics.
John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, and one of the three men most responsible for the writing of the Constitution declared:
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty-as well as privilege and interest- of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." Still sounds like the Founding Fathers knew this was a Christian nation.
This view, that we were a Christian nation, was hold for almost 150 years until the Everson v. Board of Education ruling in 1947. Before that momentous ruling, even the Supreme Court knew that we were a Christian nation. In 1892 the Court stated:
"No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people...This is a Christian nation." There it is again! From the Supreme Court of the United States. This court went on to cite 87 precedents (prior actions, words, and rulings) to conclude that this was a "Christian nation".
In 1854, the House Judiciary Committee said: "in this age, there is no substitute for Christianity...That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.'
It should be noted here that even as late as 1958 a dissenting judge warned in Baer v. Kolmorgen that if the court did not stop talking about the "separation of Church and State", people were going to start thinking it was part of the Constitution.
It has been demonstrated in their own words: Ben Franklin, George Washington and John Adams, to the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court, how our founding fathers felt about the mix of politics and religion.
When we read articles such as "What's God got to do with it?" (Primack, 5/4) and "The wall between state and church must not be breached" (Tager, 5/7) it just reaffirms how little, even intelligent people, understand about the founding of our great Republic. To say that this nation was not founded as a Christian nation or that the Constitution was not founded on Christian principles is totally at odds with the facts of history.
Tex Browning
Yet there's no mention of a deity, Jeezus, Christians, salvation, or anything like that in the Constitution of the United States which is the supreme law of the land. Why do you think that is since, by the posting of this article, it's clear that you ascribe to the belief that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation?
If the U.S. was founded, and intended to be, a Christian nation, then why are those references to Christianity so sorely missing in the Constitution?
Here is an extract from the Treaty of Tripoli, ratified in 1790 and ended the Barbay conflicts in North Africa:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
Given the Senate has to ratify a treaty and the President signs the treaty, it seems to me that its clear the Founding Fathers did not intend for the US to be established as a Christian nation.
The founding fathers where not Christian; for the most part they where Deists and Atheists. Our founding documents give us the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Liberty does not come to us as a group all living under a religion, it comes to us as individuals that we may all find our own path. There was a time when the bibles word was law, it was called the Dark Ages and it killed millions during the Crusades, burned thousands of women at the stake and put scientists on trial for "anti god statements" like the earth is round not flat and the sun in the center on the universe and not the earth.
There has not been a point in time that, when the church takes power over the people, it does not abuse it to the full extent of it's powers. I for one would like the laws of my nation to allow people to be Christian or not, and to not based off of fairy tales written thousands of years ago.
The reason why our founding documents are mistaken as Christian is because until that point most laws where made by the church and we where the first of it's kind to not have laws based upon religion. Many of these laws are based upon similar values but not for the same reasons. You people have confused "persecution" with the phrase "Not getting everything you want". It is part of living in a free society. The extent of your persecution is keeping $10,000,000,000 + of tax free earnings a year.
Same old Argument...
But all one has to do is read the preambles to each states constitution, to understand the mindset of the leaders at that time........nearly ALL of them acknowledged God, the All Mighty, our Lord...and so on.
with that said, I don't really care what others think........it is what it is. I know what I believe to be true....and I'm not out to change anybody elsed mind on this....and I don't mean that in a cocky way....it is just the way I feel about it.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 14, 2012, 09:30:37 PM
Same old Argument...
But all one has to do is read the preambles to each states constitution, to understand the mindset of the leaders at that time........nearly ALL of them acknowledged God, the All Mighty, our Lord...and so on.
with that said, I don't really care what others think........it is what it is. I know what I believe to be true....and I'm not out to change anybody elsed mind on this....and I don't mean that in a cocky way....it is just the way I feel about it.[/font]
We're talking about the federal government and the supreme law of the land.
Quote from: Locutus on August 14, 2012, 09:32:10 PM
We're talking about the federal government and the supreme law of the land.
btw, the people of this country ARE the federal government....I think THAT is the difference between a liberal and a conservative. Liberals think the government is not the people but a "special" group who knows more than the rest of us.
Quote from: Palehorse on August 14, 2012, 09:25:21 PM
The founding fathers where not Christian; for the most part they where Deists and Atheists. Our founding documents give us the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
...
There was a time when the bibles word was law, it was called the Dark Ages and it killed millions during the Crusades, burned thousands of women at the stake and put scientists on trial for "anti god statements" like the earth is round not flat and the sun in the center on the universe and not the earth.
Right you are, and when it came time to crafting what would become the Constitution of the United States, they didn't turn to the Bible for guidance, but rather to the philosophies of the Enlightenment.
Quote from: Locutus on August 14, 2012, 09:43:32 PM
Right you are, and when it came time to crafting what would become the Constitution of the United States, they didn't turn to the Bible for guidance, but rather to the philosophies of the Enlightenment.
If that is what you want to believe that is good with me........I can show several quotes where many, many of our forefathers admitted to using the bible as their moral compass. The Bible is NOT a bad thing, believe it or not.
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)
They agreed that anyone who refused to seek the LORD, the God of Israel, would be put to death—whether young or old, man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:13)
The false prophets or visionaries who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who redeemed you from slavery and brought you out of the land of Egypt. Since they try to lead you astray from the way the Lord your God commanded you to live, you must put them to death. In this way you will purge the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:5)
They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen . . . Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done . . . They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:25,28,32)
If this were a Christian Nation, then the above "Word of God" instructs you to kill anyone who is not Christian, that does not believe, or lead their lives the way "God" wants them to.
No, this is not a Christian nation. Moreover, this nation now contains millions of believers in everything from Islam to agnostic, atheist, etc. And most of these religions ascribe to the basic common sense actions and behaviors that could be interpreted as the basis for the laws of this land.
George Washington went to an Anglican church every day but never participated in the communion.
When Rev. James Abercrombie, rector of the church that Washington attended, was asked by Rev. Bird Wilson as to Washington's beliefs, Rev. Abercrombie replied:"Sir, Washington was a Deist."
Later in a sermon in Oct. 1831, Rev. Bird Wilson said:
"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected not a one had professed a belief in Christianity...."
The presidents who had been elected by that time were Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson. He said our first seven presidents were not Christian.
Benjamin Franklin once said:
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
Here's an excerpt from John Adams in a letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816:
"Jesus is benevolence personified, an example for all men. Dupuis has made no alteration in my opinions of the Christian religion , in its primitive purity and simplicity, which I have entertained for more than sixty years. It is the religion of reason, equity, and love; it is the religion of the head and of the heart."
Sounds like he's a Christian but later in the same letter he writes:
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed? How has it happened that all the fine arts, architecture, painting, sculpture, statuary, music , poetry, and oratory, have been prostituted, from the creation of the world, to the sordid and detestable purposes of superstition and fraud?"
In the first quote, the phrase "in its primitive purity and simplicity" means as it was before it was corrupted by superstitions and actions of the church leaders. Thomas Jefferson had similar ideas about Christianity. These guys liked the Jesus character to the point of considering him to be the greatest philosopher who ever lived.
But they disliked the myths surrounding him such as the miracle stories, supernatural myths (that he was a god) and they greatly disliked what Christianity became after Jesus' death . They thought Jesus was a good person but not a god. This is typical of Deistic thinking of the time, to which several of the founding fathers subscribed. Deists believe in both "a" god and reason. They accept the findings of science . They believe that any and all revealed religions (Abrahamic) are superstition. They also make spiritual references such as God, Creator, Divine, Providence, Heaven and nature.
Christianity does not own these kind of references. . . but its practitioners like to think they do.
Read "ART 11"
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Treaty_of_Tripoli_as_communicated_to_Congress_1797.png)
could you make it a little bigger? :confused:
This is why I don't believe there is a god. The whole Christian religion is founded on a lie and maintained by a group of charlatans. Christian preachers, mullahs, popes, rabbis, ayatollahs and many other religious leaders. Naming some, like Billy Graham,Jerry Farwell, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, all con men of the first degree. :rant:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 14, 2012, 10:16:22 PM
could you make it a little bigger? :confused:
No matter how large he makes it, you wouldn't understand it. :yes: :biggrin:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on August 14, 2012, 10:16:22 PM
could you make it a little bigger? :confused:
I could. Can you read that?
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty." — John F. Kennedy
A previous letter to the editor of my local paper generated some pretty nasty responses. One of these responses basically asked "why does the government owe you?" Here is my answer, and it will be mailed off to my local paper in the morning. I urge you to pass this along to others, to speak out whenever you can.
First and foremost, this government owes ALL Americans the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This is the language of our founding fathers; this is the basis of America. It is up to all the citizens of this great country to help protect those rights. In my humble opinion, the only way we can preserve these rights is to remain open-minded, critical thinkers – to question authority and the media, and not to believe everything that is told to us.
This means that all Americans should know the truth about the government and its policies; otherwise citizens make choices that are against their own interest and put the future of this country in jeopardy. If we are forced to remain misinformed and given misleading and untrue information from our government, then the government has trampled upon our rights to make choices and decisions for ourselves – the government has played us for fools.
The government owes its people equal rights and equal treatment regardless of income level, age, race, gender, size, disability and sexual orientation. A democracy is supposed to uphold the principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
This is why and what I think the government owes me. Why do you think it doesn't owe every American this?
The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness – those sound like some pretty darn good rights. However, it deeply saddens me as each day I see these rights trampled upon by our government. Each day that Bush and his cronies remain in office is a day closer to dictatorship and a fascist regime. A day closer to losing those precious rights. A fascist government doesn't owe its citizens anything.
The people of this country don't deserve that. The name America should never stand for hatred, persecution, discrimination, and intolerance. I do know that the people of this country owe it to themselves to unite against the perversion that is this administration. Forget about red and blue. Forget about liberal and conservative. Forget about religious and moral differences. We are human first, Americans second, after that, none of it should matter. America stands for democracy and Americans owe this country to stand up in the face of fascism.
"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. "
- Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, No. 1, December 19, 1776
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
John F. Kennedy
Quote from: Freedom_knight on August 17, 2012, 10:59:43 AM
A previous letter to the editor of my local paper generated some pretty nasty responses. One of these responses basically asked "why does the government owe you?" Here is my answer, and it will be mailed off to my local paper in the morning. I urge you to pass this along to others, to speak out whenever you can.
First and foremost, this government owes ALL Americans the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This is the language of our founding fathers; this is the basis of America. It is up to all the citizens of this great country to help protect those rights. In my humble opinion, the only way we can preserve these rights is to remain open-minded, critical thinkers – to question authority and the media, and not to believe everything that is told to us.
This means that all Americans should know the truth about the government and its policies; otherwise citizens make choices that are against their own interest and put the future of this country in jeopardy. If we are forced to remain misinformed and given misleading and untrue information from our government, then the government has trampled upon our rights to make choices and decisions for ourselves – the government has played us for fools.
The government owes its people equal rights and equal treatment regardless of income level, age, race, gender, size, disability and sexual orientation. A democracy is supposed to uphold the principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
This is why and what I think the government owes me. Why do you think it doesn’t owe every American this?
The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness – those sound like some pretty darn good rights. However, it deeply saddens me as each day I see these rights trampled upon by our government. Each day that Bush and his cronies remain in office is a day closer to dictatorship and a fascist regime. A day closer to losing those precious rights. A fascist government doesn’t owe its citizens anything.
The people of this country don’t deserve that. The name America should never stand for hatred, persecution, discrimination, and intolerance. I do know that the people of this country owe it to themselves to unite against the perversion that is this administration. Forget about red and blue. Forget about liberal and conservative. Forget about religious and moral differences. We are human first, Americans second, after that, none of it should matter. America stands for democracy and Americans owe this country to stand up in the face of fascism.
“Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. “
- Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, No. 1, December 19, 1776
"Bush and his cronies"?
Quote from: libby on August 17, 2012, 11:47:15 PM
"Bush and his cronies"?
:rotfl:
Apparently they didn't bother to read the full content of what they were posting. :big grin:
And actually, the rest of us didn't read it either because it stayed on the forum for a full 12 hours before you spotted it libby. ;D
Good job!! :thumbsup:
George Washington
1st U.S. President
"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.
John Adams
2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be.The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever."
--Adams wrote this in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776.
Thomas Jefferson
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the
Quote from: Locutus on August 17, 2012, 11:54:50 PM
And actually, the rest of us didn't read it either because it stayed on the forum for a full 12 hours before you spotted it libby. ;D
Good job!! :thumbsup:
Because no one cared.
Quote from: libby on August 17, 2012, 11:47:15 PM
"Bush and his cronies"?
Clearly this "Freedom Spite" is running around plagiarizing other people's posts on the internet, and then not providing credit. (Along with not proof reading what they are posting to ensure content doesn't contradict their own viewpoints,)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I'm neither democrat or a republican.I'm a American!! Proud to live in the good old U.S.A.I want a nation that is free as it can be.I don't want a hand out but a hand up.Where hard work and sacrifice will be rewarded and dreams can still come true.
Quote from: Freedom_knight on August 18, 2012, 06:25:06 PM
I'm neither democrat or a republican.I'm a American!! Proud to live in the good old U.S.A.I want a nation that is free as it can be.I don't want a hand out but a hand up.Where hard work and sacrifice will be rewarded and dreams can still come true.
From where would such a "hand up" come if one were needed?
Quote from: Freedom_knight on August 18, 2012, 06:25:06 PM
I'm neither democrat or a republican.I'm a American!! Proud to live in the good old U.S.A.I want a nation that is free as it can be.I don't want a hand out but a hand up.Where hard work and sacrifice will be rewarded and dreams can still come true.
How many times have you voted of a Democrat and if you did who was it? Why do I ask this question Sir Likestobitchalot? Because after reading all of your past posts you are a Tea Party Republican. I wouldn't believe one word that comes out of your mouth even if your tongue was notarized. :yes:
:det: