Sunny...I recall that your husband used some product on your Florida house to lay tile directly over the old flooring (vinyl, was it?) Do you have any info on what he used? Any tips he could offer?
Hey Gryphon! Just saw this...not sure how urgent of an issue this is...but if it can wait until this evening, I will certainly ask him. Yes, it was a compound that he applied directly to the vinyl flooring -- some type of "thinset" made especially for that.
Only difference, of course, is that we had a block house, so the flooring underneath the vinyl was concrete. Not sure what type of flooring you're dealing with or if that would even matter?
It came in a paper sack, similar to sacrete/concrete & he mixed with water in this bucket:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l46/sunnyinfl/100_0802.jpg)
Wouldn't it also depend on how tight the original tile was bonded to to floor?
Yes, no rush...its an upcoming project.
The bathroom Im redoing is over a woodfloor, but the original sheet vinyl is seriously bonded to the subfloor...so it will make an easier job for me if I can do the thinset route.
Thanks!
Hey Gryphon, I didn't get a chance to ask husband about this last night -- but, will tonight. In doing a quick search, I did find this article -- it addresses the 'subflooring' issues, as well as, mentions a 'latex modified thinset mortar' for installation over vinyl.
For your info: Installing Tile Over Vinyl, Wood, & Concrete (http://www.floorstransformed.com/installnotes.html).
thank you so much! Sounds like I better bite the bullet and pull up the vinyl...if it were on a slab and glued down, I wouldnt worry about it, but since Im on a wood floor, better make the extra step.
Thanks for the info Sunny!
I just re-read the info provided earlier & to me, it's a little misleading...
Unfortunately, we didn't stay in the FL house very long after husband did the kitchen floor -- so, I can't even provide testimony to the longevity.
I don't quite understand the difference between applying over the woodflooring vs. creating a subfloor out of luann/plywood?
me either! whats under my vinyl is already plywood...
hmpf! I asked dh about this today & he laughed at me when I told him about mentioning our old house was block -- said it had nothing to do with the floor (which he corrected me...the house was built on a Monoliptic slab)...however, he did mention that the thinset was just an "Acryllic" thinset.
He suggested that in your case, you just lay cement board over the woodfloor before doing the ceramic tile, then use regular thinset.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
He says I can PM you our mailing address. The consultation fee will be $34.95. :wink:
Sunny, I just saw this...thank you again for your help! I might start the project next weekend...Ill let you know how it goes...
Great! Please do. :smile:
Quote from: Gryphon on January 13, 2007, 01:21:16 PM
Sunny, I just saw this...thank you again for your help! I might start the project next weekend...Ill let you know how it goes...
Hey Gryphon -- have you had a chance to start this project yet?!? :smile:
I ordered the tile this past weekend...should be here this week *fingers crossed*.
I had a builder at a party I threw last weekend and he suggested putting down 1/4" cement backer...a small added cost that will probably be worth it...
Is that different than cement board or is that the same thing? :confused:
yeah I think its the same thing.
Gryphon,
Definitely put down the backer.
Speaking from experience here.
grout cracks?
Bingo.
The first time I did tile by the fireplace (making a hearth), I thought the floor was solid enough -- good floor and subfloor, joists, etc.
OK at first. But, with Winter, and logs, and walking, and sitting, and fire tending, etc., the floor started to develop the tiny little spider webbing that spells eventual doom.
Tore it all out (thinset is a B!TCH to scrape off wood without making a major mess) and put down concrete board, then the tile, and 7 coats of sealer.
Been 8 years and I only recoat w/sealer every 2-3 years. Couple of coats and I'm good to go.
The American Tile Association, or something similar, I cant put my hands on the book now, recommends joists at a much closer than usual 12 inches on center for floors that will be tiled...theres hardly a builder out there that will do that...so backer is a great idea.
Yep.
I even went down in the basement and put additional cross-bracing in the floor joists to prevent the cracking. Stupid me. Wood flexes.
Concrete board is the way to go, for sure.
what should I allow for waste? I ordered three 16 sf containers. (if I recall the numbers correctly). Im only tiling 30 sf, minus the sink area. Ordering 32 didnt seem like enough, but surely 48 was overkill.
Who is installing the tile, and how much experience do they have?
me, and none.
;D
I installed it myself, also.
Just common sense -- lay it with as few seams as possible, and make sure the seams fall in the least used areas.
Definitely use the specialized coated screws that are made for the board.
Lay it as tight as you can over a floor that you make as rigid as you can. The little the flex, the better. Tile and grout have no flex.
Follow the directions on the directions with the thinset. Worked for me.
Grouting, the same. Be prepared to wash & wipe the grout about a million times w/clean water each time.
Depending on the finish of the tile you bought, you will get various opinions on sealing it. I was always more concerned with sealing the grout itself, as opposed to the tile surface. I tended to overkill.
Those are the salient points I can recall now, after several years have passed.
If I remember any others, I'll pm you.
Good luck. If I were closer, I'd be glad to lend you a hand. Always enjoy working on do-it-yourself projects.
:smile:
well we will see how well I like it after Ive done this one! I nearly pulled my hair out last year when I had to paint some new trimwork I had installed...
I probably will skip sealing because its a seldom used guest bathroom. But if this goes well, Im doing the master bath too...and will more than likely seal that one--Im planning to use travertine and I know it can stain easily.
Right about the travertine.
BTW --
Waste -- I always buy one more sheet than I think I'll need. I get really pi$$ed when I'm in the middle of a project and have to go buy more material. I would rather gather up the extra and make one trip back after it's all over to return unused stuff, than make three trips in the middle of something because I shorted myself on material.
Trim -- If I have a choice, I always dry fit and prepaint the trim. It's a heck of a lot easier for me to touch up the trim than it is for me to paint it in place. If you have gaps too big to fill w/paint, you can always fill in the cracks w/several kinds of filler on the market, if necessary, then touch up. Saves my sanity.
today was demolition day. Old floor and baseboards are out. The backer board is down...the tile is on its way...so far so good.
You go, Gryphon!!
Let see some before and after shots of it, OK? :wink:
well...I didnt take a good "before" but heres a picture that sort of shows what it looked like...granted, it wont look much different "after"
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k199/Gryphon_photo/558681597205_0_ALB.jpg)
The tile arrived and tonight is the night to get started. Do I REALLY have to start in the center of the room in such a small space? And how do I handle the transition at the door? (All the threshholds the local places have are white marble, which wont match at all)
Ooc, what is the flooring like just outside of the bathroom?
As for the other question, my inexperienced thought is....even if the bathroom is small, if you don't start in the middle & the dimensions are an odd number, you may end up with an odd size on one side.
*shrug*
theres carpet in the hall just outside of the bathroom...but phase two is to replace that with hardwood...but I dont know how long away that is.
if I start in the middle...at the narrow portion of the room I end up with three full tiles and then two less-than half tiles on each side. (or three full tiles and one almost-full tile sort of under the toe kick of the vanity)
Most tilers start in the middle, but there is not hard and fast rule. IMO, I would visualize (dry run, if necessary) each way. Whichever is most pleasing visually, I would do.
The reason that tilers do the middle thing is so that the room looks "balanced." But, in a very small space, the "visualization" is the dictator.
As far as the threshold is concerned --
if you can't find a match in travertine (try the specialty flooring stores, too), usually you can find a generic threshold that will do for the time being, since you're going to do the floors anyway (you'll just have to tear it out to do that).
That's the best I've got to offer for now.
BTW -- If you have access to a good piece of hardwood and some power tools (table saw, router, sander, etc) you can make a fairly good threshold, or modify a generic one. I've done that before, and it has worked out very well.
Don't know if any of this helps, but I do admire your willingness to give it a try.
The key to a do-it-yourself project is:
When you are done and are showing it off to guests, do NOT point out any mistakes you might have made. Odds are that, even if it it a GLARING error to you, they won't have the foggiest idea that you fudged over an oops. :smile: :smile:
Thanks!
As for your last bit of advice...well taken! I was at a superbowl party where afriend showed off the "terrible" paint job theyd just given their guest bath. Even when he pointed out what made it terrible, it wasnt bad...and I wouldnt have noticed any of it had he said nothing.
When we built the house for the Dr. and his wife last winter, we were under a terrible deadline. Utility trenches filled w/water overnight and had to be pumped, mud everywhere, and on and on.
We had to rush a lot of things, which ground very deeply against my perfectionist grain. But, since the deadline was the bottom line, we pushed on, and finished with two days to redo some lumps.
When they arrived to inhabit the house, they could do nothing but coo over how nice everything looked. We had been prepared for the worst, as this couple was FAMOUS for noticing minor detail. We were shocked. They never noticed the errors.
Naturally, we just scuffed our boots in the dirt, stuck our hands in our pockets, and gave our best "Aw, shucks, ma'am" looks.
Worked like a charm.
:biggrin: :biggrin:
Never, ever, point out your mistakes unless you are paid to point them out!!!!!
you built a whole house?
you should share pictures!
My ex boss has the pictures.
Maybe I could get some from him. I'll see.
I know a few are not flattering in the least. :biggrin:
(The mud in the utilities trenches was really deep. I was newbie = sucker in bottom of trench. Mud sucked my boots off my feet. Fall down, go boom. Very cold.)
Quote from: Gryphon on February 05, 2007, 05:21:23 PM
The tile arrived and tonight is the night to get started. Do I REALLY have to start in the center of the room in such a small space? And how do I handle the transition at the door? (All the threshholds the local places have are white marble, which wont match at all)
Did you have a chance to start yet? If so, how's it going? :smile:
The tile came in last week, and Ive done a rough layout. The backer is down, and hopefully this weekend will give me enough time to start laying the actual tile.
Cool! Keep us posted. :smile:
Its all done! Except for putting the quarter rounds down. It was surprisingly easy, and looks great. (Except the grout seems to be effervescing?)
ONe tip Id give everyone....if youre adding depth to your existing floor...in my case, a half inch--1/4" for the tile and 1/4" for the backer..youd do well to replace the entire baseboard unless you start with nice tall ones. My already skimpy baseboards are skimpier by a half inch now.