The Unknown Zone - proudly an American forum!

QuoteA Mississippi judge this week jailed a lawyer for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in court. The Supreme Court long ago ruled that schools cannot force students to recite the Pledge. Do you think this judge has the right to do so?

I borrowed this from here:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/08/court-ordered-pledge-appropriate/

It's amazing to me how many people think it is appropriate.

I may surprise you, but of course no one should be "forced" to say anything.  I think the judge is wrong.

But, personally, I really like the Pledge.  I think it is sad that some Americans have to find fault with it.

I knew the SCOTUS was losing it, but now this?!  :rolleyes:

A little history on the pledge:

QuoteThe Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855–1931), a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist, and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850–1898). The original "Pledge of Allegiance" was published in the September 8 issue of the popular children's magazine The Youth's Companion as part of the National Public-School Celebration of Columbus Day, a celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's arrival in the Americas. The event was conceived and promoted by James B. Upham, a marketer for the magazine, in a campaign to sell flags to public schools and magazines to students,[2][3] while instilling the idea of American nationalism in them.[4][5]

Bellamy's original Pledge read as follows:[6]

    I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Students swearing the Pledge on Flag Day in 1899

The pledge was supposed to be quick and to the point. Bellamy designed it to be recited in 15 seconds. As a socialist, he had initially also considered using the words equality and fraternity[5] but decided against it - knowing that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans.[7]

Francis Bellamy and Upham had lined up the National Education Association to support the "Youth's Companion" as a sponsor of the Columbus Day observance along with the use of the American flag. By June 29, 1892, Bellamy and Upham had arranged for Congress and President Benjamin Harrison to announce a national proclamation making the public school flag ceremony the center of the national Columbus Day celebrations. Subsequently, the Pledge was first used in public schools on October 12, 1892, during Columbus Day observances organized to coincide with the opening of the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, Illinois.[8]

In 1923, the National Flag Conference called for the words "my Flag" to be changed to "the Flag of the United States", so that new immigrants would not confuse loyalties between their birth countries and the United States. The words "of America" were added a year later. The United States Congress officially recognized the Pledge as the official national pledge on June 22, 1942.

    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

This is interesting:

QuoteIn 1943 the Supreme Court reversed its decision, ruling in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette  that public school students are not required to say the Pledge, concluding that "compulsory unification of opinion" violates the First Amendment.[9] In a later opinion, the Court held that students are also not be required to stand for the Pledge.[10]

So, "under God" wasn't added to apx 56 years later?

QuoteLouis A. Bowman (1872–1959) was the first to initiate the addition of "under God" to the Pledge. The National Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution gave him an Award of Merit as the originator of this idea.[12][13] He spent his adult life in the Chicago area and was Chaplain of the Illinois Society of the Sons of the American Revolution. At a meeting on February 12, 1948,[citation needed] Lincoln's Birthday, he led the Society in swearing the Pledge with two words added, "under God." He stated that the words came from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Though not all manuscript versions of the Gettysburg Address contain the words "under God", all the reporters' transcripts of the speech as delivered do, as perhaps Lincoln may have deviated from his prepared text and inserted the phrase when he said "that the nation shall, under God, have a new birth of freedom." Bowman repeated his revised version of the Pledge at other meetings.[12]

It kinda shoots the whole theory that those words belong there in the foot, huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

When I was a Girl Scout leader, I had a little girl whose parents prefer that she not say the pledge. It was wonderful because it lead to a discussion re: 1st amendment rights. :yes:

When my oldest (now 26) was learning the pledge, she used to place her little hand somewhere in the vicinity of her belly, open her eyes wide, and declaim....

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the puppet for which it stands...."

We figured she was on to something, so we never corrected her.

Quote from: LOsborne on October 08, 2010, 08:23:45 PM
When my oldest (now 26) was learning the pledge, she used to place her little hand somewhere in the vicinity of her belly, open her eyes wide, and declaim....

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the puppet for which it stands...."

We figured she was on to something, so we never corrected her.

From the mouth of babes!  :yes:

Quote from: Palehorse on October 08, 2010, 08:26:06 PM
From the mouth of babes!  :yes:

My daughter said, "with liberty and justice frog".

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Pledge_salue.jpg/220px-Pledge_salue.jpg)

:spooked:

QuoteSwearing of the pledge is accompanied by a salute. An early version of the salute, adopted in 1892, was known as the Bellamy salute. It started with the hand outstretched toward the flag, palm down, and ended with the palm up. Because of the similarity between the Bellamy salute and the Nazi salute, developed later, President Franklin D. Roosevelt instituted the hand-over-the-heart gesture as the salute to be rendered by civilians during the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem  in the United States, instead of the Bellamy salute. Removal of the Bellamy salute occurred on December 22, 1942, when Congress amended the Flag Code language first passed into law on June 22, 1942.[11]

I just saw this picture in the article. There's an interesting discussion taking place because someone reported it for removal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pledge_salue.jpg

Quote from: Sandy Eggo on October 08, 2010, 08:35:30 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Pledge_salue.jpg/220px-Pledge_salue.jpg)

:spooked:

I just saw this picture in the article. There's an interesting discussion taking place because someone reported it for removal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pledge_salue.jpg

Ugh! Strangely enough I recall doing that at some point in my early school days!  :spooked:

  I can't see how this judge can get by with this.  He probably because it costs so much money to challenge him in court.

  All of the oaths, pledges and  swearing on the bible are phony.  I would serve in the army again, but I wouldn't take the oath again.  I would never take that oath again and have my freedom put in jeopardy because I refused the orders of some dumbass officer or NCO.

  And if I was forced to take an oath to tell the truth and the State was trying to put me a way.  I'm telling you I would lie, just like every other person does when his life is in jeopardy.  Going to prison or losing my money, is my life.

  On the cable the had some lawyer talking about this and everyone one of them said this is not over and this judge is in a lot of serious trouble.  Impeached.