In the Garden of Eden, God commanded, "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Moses 3:16–17). Because Adam and Eve transgressed this command and partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they were cast out from the presence of the Lord (see D&C 29:40–41). In other words, they experienced spiritual death. They also became mortal—subject to physical death. This spiritual and physical death is called the Fall.
As descendants of Adam and Eve, we inherit a fallen condition during mortality (see Alma 42:5–9, 14). We are separated from the presence of the Lord and subject to physical death. We are also placed in a state of opposition, in which we are tested by the difficulties of life and the temptations of the adversary (see 2 Nephi 2:11–14; D&C 29:39; Moses 6:48–49).
In this fallen condition, we have a conflict within us. We are Spirit children of God, with the potential to be "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). However, "we are unworthy before [God]; because of the fall our natures have become evil continually" (Ether 3:2). We need to strive continually to overcome unrighteous passions and desires.
Repeating the words of an Angel, King Benjamin said, "The natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam." King Benjamin warned that in this natural, or fallen, state, each person will be an enemy to God forever "unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father" (Mosiah 3:19).
The Fall is an integral part of Heavenly Father's plan of salvation (see 2 Nephi 2:15–16; 9:6). It has a twofold direction—downward yet forward. In addition to introducing physical and spiritual death, it gave us the opportunity to be born on the earth and to learn and progress. Through our righteous exercise of agency and our sincere repentance when we sin, we can come unto Christ and, through His Atonement, prepare to receive the gift of eternal life. The prophet Lehi taught:
"If Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.
"And [Adam and Eve] would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
"But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of Him who knoweth all things.
"Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
"And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that He may redeem the children of men from the fall" (2 Nephi 2:22–26; see also 2 Nephi 2:19–21, 27).
Adam and Eve expressed their gratitude for the blessings that came as a result of the Fall:
"Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
"And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient" (Moses 5:10-11).
Because of our fallen, mortal nature and our individual sins, our only hope is in Jesus Christ and the plan of redemption.
Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will be redeemed from the effects of the Fall. We will be resurrected, and we will be brought back into the presence of the Lord to be judged (see 2 Nephi 2:5–10; Alma 11:42–45; Helaman 14:15–17).
In addition to redeeming us from the universal effects of the Fall, the Savior can redeem us from our own sins. In our fallen state, we sin and distance ourselves from the Lord, bringing spiritual death upon ourselves. As the Apostle Paul said, "All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). If we remain in our sins, we cannot dwell in the presence of God, for "no unclean thing can dwell . . . in his presence" (Moses 6:57). Thankfully, the Atonement "bringeth to pass the condition of repentance" (Helaman 14:18), making it possible for us to receive forgiveness for our sins and dwell in the presence of God forever. Alma taught, "There was a space granted unto man in which he might repent; therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare for that endless state which has been spoken of by us, which is after the resurrection of the dead" (Alma 12:24).
Gratitude for the Savior's Atoning Sacrifice
Just as we do not really desire food until we are hungry, we will not fully desire eternal salvation until we recognize our need for the Savior. This recognition comes as we grow in our understanding of the Fall. As the prophet Lehi taught, "All mankind were in a lost and in a fallen state, and ever would be save they should rely on this Redeemer" (1 Nephi 10:6).
Link for the above:
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=84010fd41d93b010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&hideNav=1&pageNumber=1&maxResults=20&NARROW_BY=&query=fall&bucket=AllChurchContent&dateFrom=&dateTo=&AUTHOR_CATEGORY=&AUTHOR_NAME=&FORMAT=&submitSearch=Search&dateFromDisplay=&dateToDisplay=&findByAuthor=
A Holy Place of One
There can be holy places where only two or three people are gathered together in the Lord's name (Matthew 18:20) and there can also be a holy place of one.
Many have joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints because they have met believing LDS Church members, and want to know what it is that makes them so different. There is something in their faces and in their demeanors that sets them apart. Others want what they have. They want the joy; they want the peace.
Alma 5:14 asks, "And now behold, I ask of you, my brethren of the Church, have ye spiritually been born of God? Have ye received His image in your countenances? Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts?"
If we have "His image in our countenance," it's because of who we are — a person close to the Lord and Saviour, who understands the joys of living the Gospel.
The Saviour referred to His followers as "the light of the world" (Matthew 5:14). As we go into the world with His image in our countenances, we illuminate the way for others. As long as we live in righteousness we are bearers of that light. When that occurs... anywhere we stand is a holy place.
This gift of the Spirit cannot be faked. Those who do not have it, cannot pretend they do. We are either standing on holy ground, or we are not.
The first seeds of immorality are always sown in the mind. When we allow thoughts to linger on lewd or immoral things, the first step on the road to immorality has been taken.
Fill life with positive thoughts and activities so that the negative has no chance to thrive.
One of America's most gifted writers, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, wrote of this after his wife had died three years before; he longed for her still. Time had not softened his grief nor eased the torment of his memories. He had no heart for poetry those days. He had no heart for anything, it seemed. Life had become an empty dream. But this could not go on, he told himself. He was letting the days slip by, nursing his despondency. Life was not an empty dream. He must be up and doing. Let the past bury its dead.
Suddenly Longfellow was writing in a surge of inspiration, the lines coming almost too quickly for his racing pen; and I will read only three verses of this immortal and inspired message to those whom he loved:
"Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream!
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem.
"Life is real! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.
"Let us, then, be up and doing,
With a heart for any fate;
Still achieving, still pursuing,
Learn to labour and to wait."
Longfellow wrote these verses, "The Psalm of Life." He put the poem aside at first, unwilling to show it to anyone. As he later explained, "It was a voice from my inmost heart, at a time when I was rallying from depression."
I prefer another great American poet, James Russell Lowell
Earth gets its price for what Earth gives us;
The beggar is taxed for a corner to die in,
The priest hath his fee who comes and shrives us,
We bargain for the graves we lie in;
At the Devil's booth are all things sold
Each ounce of dross costs its ounce of gold;
For a cap and bells our lives we pay,
Bubbles we earn with a whole soul's tasking:
'T is heaven alone that is given away,
'T is only God may be had for the asking;
There is no price set on the lavish summer,
And June may be had by the poorest comer.
From "The Vision of Sir Launfal"
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=4000d0640b96b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
Absolute Truth
President Spencer W. Kimball
The true way of life is not a matter of opinion. There are absolute truths and relative truths. The rules of dietetics have changed many times. Many scientific findings have changed from year to year. The scientists taught for decades that the world was once a nebulous, molten mass cast off from the sun, and later many scientists said it once was a whirl of dust which solidified.
There are many ideas advanced to the world that have been changed to meet the needs of the truth as it has been discovered. There are relative truths, and there are also absolute truths which are the same yesterday, today, and forever—never changing.
These absolute truths are not altered by the opinions of men. As science has expanded our understanding of the physical world, certain accepted ideas of science have had to be abandoned in the interest of truth. Some of these seeming truths were stoutly maintained for centuries. The sincere searching of science often rests only on the threshold of truth, whereas revealed facts give us certain absolute truths as a beginning point so we may come to understand the nature of man and the purpose of his life.
The earth is spherical. If all the four billion people in the world think it flat, they are in error. That is an absolute truth, and all the arguing in the world will not change it. Weights will not suspend themselves in the air, but when released will fall earthward. The law of gravity is an absolute truth. It never varies. Greater laws can overcome lesser ones, but that does not change their undeniable truth.
We learn about these absolute truths by being taught by the Spirit. These truths are "independent" in their spiritual sphere and are to be discovered spiritually, though they may be confirmed by experience and intellect. (See D&C 93:30.) The great prophet Jacob said that "the Spirit speaketh the truth. ... Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really are, and of things as they really will be." (Jacob 4:13.) We need to be taught in order to understand life and who we really are.
2.
God, our Heavenly Father—Elohim—lives. That is an absolute truth.
All four billion of the children of men on the earth might be ignorant of Him and His attributes and His powers, but He still lives. All the people on the earth might deny Him and disbelieve, but He lives in spite of them. They may have their own opinions, but He still lives, and His form, powers, and attributes do not change according to men's opinions.
In short, opinion alone has no power in the matter of an absolute truth. He still lives. And Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Almighty, the Creator, the Master of the only true way of life—the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The intellectual may rationalize Him out of existence and the unbeliever may scoff, but Christ still lives and guides the destinies of His people. That is an absolute truth; there is no gainsaying.
The watchmaker in Switzerland, with materials at hand, made the watch that was found in the sand in a California desert. The people who found the watch had never been to Switzerland, nor seen the watchmaker, nor seen the watch made. The watchmaker still existed, no matter the extent of their ignorance or experience. If the watch had a tongue, it might even lie and say, "There is no watchmaker." That would not alter the truth.
If men are really humble, they will realize that they discover, but do not create, truth.
3.
The Gods organized the earth of materials at hand, over which they had control and power. This truth is absolute. A million educated folk might speculate and determine in their minds that the earth came into being by chance. The truth remains. The earth was made by the Gods as was the watch by the watchmaker. Opinions do not change that.
The Gods organized and gave life to man and placed him on the earth. This is absolute. It cannot be disproved. A million brilliant minds might conjecture otherwise, but it is still true. And having done all this for His Father's children, the Christ mapped out a plan of life for man—a positive and absolute program whereby man might achieve, accomplish, and overcome and perfect himself.
Again, these vital truths are not matters of opinion. If they were, then your opinion would be just as good as mine, or better. But I give you these things, not as my opinion—I give them to you as Divine Truths which are absolute.
Some day you will see and feel and understand and perhaps even berate yourself for the long delay and waste of time. It is not a matter of if. It is a matter of when.
4.
Experience in one field does not automatically create expertise in another field.
Expertise in religion comes from personal righteousness and from revelation. The Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith: "All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it." (D&C 93:30.)
A geologist who has discovered truths about the structure of the earth may be oblivious to the truths God has given us about the eternal nature of the family. If I can only make clear this one thing, it will give us a basis on which to build.
Man cannot discover God or His ways by mere mental processes. One must be governed by the laws which control the realm into which he is delving. To become a plumber, one must study the laws which govern plumbing. He must know stresses and strains, temperatures at which pipes will freeze, laws which govern steam, hot water, expansion, contraction, and so forth.
One might know much about plumbing and be a complete failure in training children or getting along with men. One might be the best of bookkeepers and yet not know anything of electricity. One might know much about buying and selling groceries and be absolutely ignorant of bridge building.
One might be a great authority on the hydrogen bomb and yet know nothing of banking. One might be a noted theologian and yet be wholly untrained in watchmaking. One might be the author of the law of relativity and yet know nothing of the Creator who originated every law.
I repeat, these are not matters of opinion. They are absolute truths. These truths are available to every soul.
It all sounds like make believe, smoke and mirrors and something for a person with a weak mind.
There is another war that has gone on since before the world was created and that is likely to continue for a long time. It is a war that reaches beyond questions of territory or national sovereignty. John the Revelator speaks of that struggle:
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
"And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" (Revelation 12:7–9).
That war, so bitter, so intense, has never ceased. It is the war between truth and error, between agency and compulsion, between the followers of Christ and those who have denied Him. His enemies have used every stratagem in that conflict. They've indulged in lying and deceit. They've employed money and wealth. They've tricked the minds of men. They've murdered and destroyed and engaged in every kind of evil practice to thwart the work of Christ.
Murder began on the earth when Cain slew Abel. The Old Testament is replete with accounts of the same eternal struggle.
It found expression in the vile accusations against the Man of Galilee, the Christ, who healed the sick and lifted men's hearts and hopes, He who taught the gospel of peace. His enemies, motivated by that evil power, seized Him, tortured Him, nailed Him to the cross, and spoke in mockery against Him. But by the power of His Godhood, He overcame the death His enemies had inflicted and through His sacrifice brought salvation from death to all men.
That eternal war went on in the decay of the work He established, in the corruption which later infected it, when darkness covered the earth and gross darkness the people (see Isaiah 60:2).
But the forces of God could not be vanquished. The Light of Christ touched the heart of a man here and a man there, and vast good came to pass notwithstanding much of oppression and suffering.
There came a time of renaissance, with struggles for liberty—struggles for which much of blood and sacrifice was paid. The Spirit of God moved upon men to found a nation wherein freedom of worship and freedom of expression and freedom of agency were protected. There followed then the opening of the dispensation of the fulness of times with a visit to earth of God the Eternal Father and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. This glorious event was followed by visits of Angels restoring the ancient keys and priesthood.
But the war was not over. It was renewed and redirected. There was contempt. There was persecution. There were drivings from one place to another. There was the murder of the young Prophet of God and of his beloved brother.
The Latter-day Saints fled their comfortable homes, their farms, their fields, their shops, their beautiful Temple built at such tremendous sacrifice. They came to mountain valleys, thousands of them dying along the way. They came to the kind of place that President Joseph Smith had instructed the Twelve to find, "where the devil cannot dig us out."
But the adversary has never stopped trying. In the October conference of 1896, President Wilford Woodruff (1807–98), then an aged man, stood in the Tabernacle on Temple Square and said:
"There are two powers on the earth and in the midst of the inhabitants of the earth—the power of God and the power of the devil. In our history we have had some very peculiar experiences. When God has had a people on the earth, it matters not in what age, Lucifer, the son of the morning, and the millions of fallen spirits that were cast out of heaven, have warred against God, against Christ, against the work of God, and against the people of God. And they are not backward in doing it in our day and generation. Whenever the Lord set His hand to perform any work, those powers labored to overthrow it."
President Woodruff knew whereof he spoke. He had then only recently passed through those difficult and perilous days when the government of the nation had come against our people, determined to destroy this Church as an organization. Despite the difficulties of those days, the Saints did not give up. In faith they moved forward. They put their trust in the Almighty, and He revealed unto them the path they should follow. In faith they accepted that revelation and walked in obedience.
But the war did not end. It abated somewhat, and we're grateful for that. Nonetheless, the adversary of truth has continued his struggle.
Notwithstanding the present strength of the Church, it seems that we are constantly under attack from one quarter or another. But we go on. We must go on. We have gone forward, and we will continue to go forward. In some seasons the issues are major. At other times they are only local skirmishes. But they are all part of a pattern.
Opposition has been felt in the undying efforts of many, both within and without the Church, to destroy faith, to belittle, to demean, to bear false witness, to tempt and allure and induce our people to practices inconsistent with the teachings and standards of this work of God.
The war goes on. It is as it was in the beginning. There may not be the intensity, and I am grateful for that. But the principles at issue are the same. The victims who fall are as precious as those who have fallen in the past. It is an ongoing battle. The men of the priesthood, with the daughters of God who are our companions and allies, are all part of the army of the Lord. We must be united. An army that is disorganized will not be victorious. It is imperative that we close ranks, that we march together as one. We cannot have division among us and expect victory. We cannot have disloyalty and expect unity. We cannot be unclean and expect the help of the Almighty.
President Gordon B Hinkley.
Link for the above
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=1c069aafed472110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=f318118dd536c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
You surely don't believe all of that in the 21st century. Talk about being brain washed.
Joseph Smith's great-grandfather Samuel Smith was a congressional representative in Massachusetts and a captain in the Revolutionary War. His son Asael Smith (Joseph's grandfather) served with him in the war as a soldier in northern New York.
Throughout the ages there has been conflict. Suffering across the globe. Grim tragic brutal conquests... subjugation, repression. Astronomical costs in life and treasures.
The Lord has said that in the last days there will be “wars and rumors of wars, the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men’s hearts shall fail” (D&C 45:26).
Weapons change. The ability to kill and destroy is constantly refined. But war itself is not new.
As we seek to understand the causes of wars, persecutions, and civil strife, we can see that they are almost always rooted in wickedness.
Throughout the course of history tyrants have oppressed their own people and threatened others and the world. Consequently great and terrifying forces with sophisticated and fearsome armaments have been engaged in battle. Many of our own Church members have been, and are, involved in such conflicts.
There are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for freedom to worship, for family, liberty, ... and to fight against tyranny, threat, and oppression. There is much that we can and must do in these perilous times. We follow the Prince of Peace. But even He said, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matt. 10:34).
One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law” (A of F 1:12). As citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.
Latter-day Saints called upon to go into battle can look to the example of Captain Moroni, the great military leader in the Book of Mormon. Although he was a mighty warrior, he “did not delight in bloodshed” (Alma 48:11). He was “firm in the faith of Christ,” and his only reason for fighting was to “defend his people, his rights, and his country, and his religion” (Alma 48:13). If Latter-day Saints must go to war, they should go in a spirit of truth and righteousness, with a desire to do good. Then, if they are required to shed another’s blood, their action will not be counted as sin.
When war raged between the Nephites and the Lamanites, the record states that “the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for power but for their homes, their liberties, their wives, their children, their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.
“And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God” (Alma 43:45–46).
The Lord counseled them, “Defend your families even unto bloodshed” (Alma 43:47).
And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).
The last paragraph, :groan:
:wink: :laugh:
Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you; seek me diligently and ye shall find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. (Doctrine and Covenants 88:63)
Quote from: The Troll on June 18, 2010, 07:30:41 PM
The last paragraph, :groan:
You made me look. I didn't groan but I did giggle.
And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loinsthat's a lot of hardware to carry around...
... and he bowed himself to the earth...I imagine he did. I imagine he had to divest himself of most the gear before he could get up again. But I don't understand why he needed all that battle gear to pray?
Quote from: LOsborne on June 19, 2010, 08:46:49 AM
You made me look. I didn't groan but I did giggle.
And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins
that's a lot of hardware to carry around...
... and he bowed himself to the earth...
I imagine he did. I imagine he had to divest himself of most the gear before he could get up again. But I don't understand why he needed all that battle gear to pray?
Quote from: LOsborne on June 19, 2010, 08:46:49 AM
You made me look. I didn't groan but I did giggle.
And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins
that's a lot of hardware to carry around...
... and he bowed himself to the earth...
I imagine he did. I imagine he had to divest himself of most the gear before he could get up again. But I don't understand why he needed all that battle gear to pray?
Amen Sister Lolly. :pray: :preach: and the Holy :ghost:
God is your Father in Heaven. Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
We call God Heavenly Father because He is the Father of our spirits and we are created in His image. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/contents
You talk of absolute truth, there is none. We live in an Universe that nothing is absolute. You talk that you have had many religious experiences. You probably did, in your own mind.
But have you seen any real miracles, one that can be proved to come from God and not by the law of averages. Well, I have not, none. If God really gives a damn and he is powerful as you say he is. Why haven't we seen any arms, legs, eyes, livers, kidneys, feet, hands or any other body regenerated. With all that power that should be an easy job for God. He was thought to have made a whole man and woman.
My wife and I try to work out at an the habitation center at River View Hospital in Noblesville, Indiana, five days a week. It is a shame to see all of those mental and physical damage children brought in there for rehabilitation. Limbs twisted, mouths open slobbering, head twisted up, legs in braces and in wheel chairs. Making animalistic sounds. And you say there is a loving God. Farmers take better care of their animals than your God takes care of his people. If he does exist he should be fired for not doing a good job.
So the main question is, have you every seen a miracle preformed by God that can be proven scientifically? If you haven't, why?
:smile: First you must understand why we are here and who we are. Mankind has brought upon themselves all the calamities that have befallen the mortal race. Break the Eternal Laws of God and take the consequences, both here and in the eternities... that is the law, and even the Gods heed the eternal laws of the Universe, and work within them.
We are children of our Heavenly Father, here on trial for a brief moment of eternity, to determine our worthiness or otherwise, and where we are worthy to dwell once our trial is completed.
What you just said, is BS and you know it. There is no way man can know what you God thinks, because he doesn't exist. All you know is what "Holy Men" wrote down 400 years after Jesus supposedly died, which he didn't according to your Bible. Which as been rewrote and rewritten and rewritten and rewritten differently over and over and over until to day. There are over 100 different Bibles in this world. Which is correct?
You still haven't answered my question. Have you ever seen any body part reproduced by God in a miracle? Why all of the cripples, damaged and mentally damaged children? For they did not harm anyone.
Now can "You" believe in something you can't see or feel physically. Plus believes that he watches every person, every minute, of every day, of every year as long as we live, of the 6 billion people on this earth writting down every sin "He" thinks we did and will burn us in Hell for anyone of them, because "He" loves us. :bsflag:
What you choose to believe is up to you, one of these moments you will pass on and realise then the enormity of the eternal consequenses of those choices. :(
Quote from: JANADELE on June 20, 2010, 03:43:14 PM
What you choose to believe is up to you, one of these moments you will pass on and realise then the enormity of the eternal consequenses of those choices. :(
Oh, my Mom was a great Christian Lady. I use to believe like you. Believe in all of the magic, the Holy Water and the Holy Smoke. How much more religious and smart the Preacher was than the rest of the church and found that he also had feet of clay. Just another human with a different job.
But one day I sat down with myself and thought about of all this silly stuff and started reading other books about the possibility of there not a being, a God and the reasons why. It makes more sense that what I was believing.
There is going to be no enormity of the eternal consequences of my choices. But at least you won't know your were wrong and all of the time and energy and doing with out and worrying that "He" might see you sin a sin you didn't know was a sin was for nothing.
You will pass on like me and billions before us and become part of the Universe from whence we were we're formed and came from. From Star Dust to Star Dust. The End.
It would be difficult to be further from the truth.
Quote from: JANADELE on June 20, 2010, 05:06:06 PM
It would be difficult to be further from the truth.
Just keep living in La-La-Land. If you happy just keep doing what you doing. But I think your wasting all of you time on trying to brain wash the Unknown Zone with your LDS stuff.
But that what you people do, travel all over the world, try to suck people into you Cult.
;D Yes, two young men travelled from across the world to me and came to my door. I had never before even heard of the LDS Church or the Book of Mormon or ever known of, or met, an LDS member. Since then three of my sons have served Missions, married in the Temple, four have served as teachers and leaders, including Bishop and on the LDS High Council... guess those two young men would be pleased with the results of their service.
Quote from: JANADELE on June 20, 2010, 07:47:47 PM
;D Yes, two young men travelled from across the world to me and came to my door. I had never before even heard of the LDS Church or the Book of Mormon or ever known of, or met, an LDS member. Since then three of my sons have served Missions, married in the Temple, four have served as teachers and leaders, including Bishop and on the LDS High Council... guess those two young men would be pleased with the results of their service.
Mother brain washed, children brain brain washed. What more could a mother want. Don't over do it of the kids or you will get some children like me and my sisters who were burned out by our mother's religion. Also know a lot more kids of mothers who were burned out by their mother's religion. Do it and see.
And many more who were brought up without the moral teachings of Christinity who sucumbed to the evils of the world. :(
True Christianity is the ultimate truth and the path to Eternal Salvation.
Quote from: JANADELE on June 21, 2010, 06:05:13 AM
And many more who were brought up without the moral teachings of Christinity who sucumbed to the evils of the world. :(
True Christianity is the ultimate truth and the path to Eternal Salvation.
To insinuate that I have succumbed to the evils of the world is total BS. I am just as moral and good as you. There is one thing that I practice that you so called Christians don't.
The Golden Rule. Do un to other as you would have done un to you. You religious and pious people are always looking down on other people who don't believe your stupid pagan malarkey.
You say that the only people to get to go to your heaven must come through Jesus Christ. Holy Crap. Out of 6 billion people on the earth only 2 billion claim to be Christians (I doubt some of these people's faith). Your God is sure leaving a lot his people for the devil.
The non-Christians :devil4: Janadele :rotfl: :rotfl:
You have had more than enough free reign for your Off Topic criticisms TT, stick to the topic or get lost.
In the scriptures you will rarely discover a revelation that didn't come in response to a question. Whenever a question arose and Joseph Smith wasn't sure of the answer, he approached the Lord, and the results are the wonderful revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants. Often the knowledge Joseph received extended far beyond the original question. That is because not only can the Lord answer the questions we ask but, even more importantly, He can give us answers to questions we should have asked. Let us listen to those answers.
The missionary effort of the Church is founded upon honest investigators asking heartfelt questions. Inquiry is the birthplace of testimony. Some might feel embarrassed or unworthy because they have searching questions regarding the gospel, but they needn't feel that way. Asking questions isn't a sign of weakness; it's a precursor of growth.
God commands us to seek answers to our questions (see James 1:5–6) and asks only that we seek "with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ" (Moroni 10:4). When we do so, the truth of all things can be manifested to us "by the power of the Holy Ghost" (Moroni 10:5).
Fear not; ask questions. Be curious, but doubt not! Always hold fast to faith and to the light you have already received. Because we see imperfectly in mortality, not everything is going to make sense right now. In fact, I should think that if everything did make sense to us, it would be evidence that it had all been made up by a mortal mind. Remember that God has said:
"My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways. ...
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8–9).
Nevertheless, you know that one of the purposes of mortality is to become more like your Heavenly Father in your thoughts and in your ways. Viewed from this perspective, searching for answers to your questions can bring you closer to God, strengthening your testimony instead of shaking it. It's true that "faith is not ... a perfect knowledge" (Alma 32:21), but as you exercise your faith, applying gospel principles every day under any circumstances, you will taste the sweet fruits of the gospel, and by this fruit you will know of its truth (see Matthew 7:16–20; John 7:17; Alma 32:41–43).
Quote from: JANADELE on June 21, 2010, 08:48:42 AM
You have had more than enough free reign for your Off Topic criticisms TT, stick to the topic or get lost.
Oh, thank you Mrs. Good Christian.
:biggrin: :shrk:
Then in the allegorical prophecy made of these events, "the Lord of the vineyard" looked at the waste of His creation—and wept. "What could I have done more for my vineyard?" was His painful cry. No answer could be given. "Have I slackened mine hand, that I have not nourished it? Nay, I have nourished it, and I have digged about it, and I have pruned it, and I have dunged it; and I have stretched forth mine hand almost all the day long, and the end draweth nigh." (Jacob 5:41, 47.) In spite of such grief and despair the Lord of the vineyard determined to "spare it a little longer" (Jacob 5:50)—long enough for one final attempt, long enough for one more dispensation, long enough for one final experiment focused on the promised land.
So, after a thousand years of preparation, the Spirit of God rested upon a young Italian sailing under the flag of Spain, and, as Nephi had seen in vision, "he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land." (1 Ne. 13:12.)
This "Christian of almost maniacal devoutness" as Alistair Cooke calls him, this man with the zeal of Galileo, Don Quixote, and John the Baptist combined, was not to be denied. (Alistair Cooke, America, New York: Alfred Knopf, 1973, p. 30.) "Our Lord with provident hand unlocked my mind," said Columbus, "sent me upon the seas, and gave me fire for the deed. Those who heard of my enterprise called it foolish, mocked me, and laughed. But who can doubt but that the Holy Ghost inspired me?" (Jacob Wasserman, Columbus, Don Quixote of the Seas, New Brunswick: Rutgers Univ. Press, 1959, p. 20.)
Columbus stood on the captain's deck, but the all-seeing eye of the Lord was on the compass, and the hopes of every dispensation filled the sails. The prophet Nephi had also seen in vision what followed: colonization, war, and the birth of a new nation.
"And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles who had gone forth out of captivity did humble themselves before the Lord; and the power of the Lord was with them.
"And I beheld that their mother Gentiles were gathered together upon the waters, and upon the land also, to battle against them.
"And I beheld that the power of God was with them, and also that the wrath of God was upon all those that were gathered together against them to battle. And I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles that had gone out of captivity were delivered by the power of God out of the hands of all other nations." (1 Ne. 13:16–19.)
Once again, after meticulous preparation and precise timing, the Lord had begun to build on His promised land a congregation that had compacted to pursue "the glory of God and the advancement of the Christian faith." The cultural freedom of the Renaissance and religious freedom of the Reformation underscored the strong sense of personal freedom espoused in the Enlightenment to provide the ideal attitudes and environments for the beginning of this "first new nation." George Washington, six years before he was inaugurated as the initial president of the Grand Experiment, wrote of America's moment in history:
"The foundation of our empire was not laid in the gloomy age of ignorance and superstition, but in an epoch when the rights of mankind were better understood and more clearly defined than at any former period."
Link for above:
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=7171fd758096b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
I am truly sorry for this, but that picture you use for your avatar reminds me of a line from the Bob Seger song - Night Moves
"And points all her own sitting way up high
Way up firm and high"
:icon_twisted:
Quote from: JANADELE on June 21, 2010, 12:46:10 PM
:biggrin: :shrk:
Your own little world, :flash: :rotfl:
Quote from: Olias on June 21, 2010, 01:05:31 PM
I am truly sorry for this, but that picture you use for your avatar reminds me of a line from the Bob Seger song - Night Moves
"And points all her own sitting way up high
Way up firm and high"
:icon_twisted:
:food24: :rotfl:
Quote from: Olias on June 21, 2010, 01:05:31 PM
I am truly sorry for this, but that picture you use for your avatar reminds me of a line from the Bob Seger song - Night Moves
"And points all her own sitting way up high
Way up firm and high"
:icon_twisted:
Bingo.
http://www.youtube.com/v/kw94TwKqH_c
:sm69: Need GLASSES ???
:nocomment: :devil29: :devil29: :devil29: :devil4: :devil29: :devil29: :devil29:
THE FIRST BOOK OF MOSES CALLED GENESIS, CHAPTER 9: Authorised King James Version.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
JOSEPH SMITH TRANSLATION
GENESIS 9: 21-25
The rainbow was set in heaven as a reminder of God's covenant to Enoch and to Noah. In the last days the general assembly of the church of the Firstborn the Zion of the Lord in Enoch's time; ( see Moses 7 next post ) will join the righteous on earth. (compare Genesis 9: 16-17)
21 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant, which I made unto thy father Enoch; that, when men shall keep all my commandments, Zion should again come on the earth, the city of Enoch which I have caught up unto myself.
22 And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;
23 And the general assembly of the church of the first-born shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.
24 And the bow shall be in the cloud, and I will establish my covenant unto thee, which I have made between me and thee, for every living creature of all flesh that shall be upon the earth.
25 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant which I have established between me and thee; for all flesh that shall be upon the earth.
(http://thevinylvillage.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/church_lady.jpg)
SELECTIONS FROM THE BOOK OF MOSES CHAPTER 7
Enoch teaches, leads the people, moves mountains—The City of Zion is established—Enoch foresees the coming of the Son of Man, his atoning sacrifice, and the resurrection of the saints—He foresees the restoration, the gathering, the Second Coming, and the return of Zion.
1 And it came to pass that Enoch continued his speech, saying: Behold, our father Adam taught these things, and many have believed and become the sons of God, and many have believed not, and have perished in their sins, and are looking forth with fear, in torment, for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God to be poured out upon them.
2 And from that time forth Enoch began to prophesy, saying unto the people, that: As I was journeying, and stood upon the place Mahujah, and cried unto the Lord, there came a voice out of heaven, saying—Turn ye, and get ye upon the mount Simeon.
3 And it came to pass that I turned and went up on the mount; and as I stood upon the mount, I beheld the heavens open, and I was clothed upon with glory;
4 And I saw the Lord; and he stood before my face, and he talked with me, even as a man talketh one with another, face to face; and he said unto me: Look, and I will show unto thee the world for the space of many generations.
5 And it came to pass that I beheld in the valley of Shum, and lo, a great people which dwelt in tents, which were the people of Shum.
6 And again the Lord said unto me: Look; and I looked towards the north, and I beheld the people of Canaan, which dwelt in tents.
7 And the Lord said unto me: Prophesy; and I prophesied, saying: Behold the people of Canaan, which are numerous, shall go forth in battle array against the people of Shum, and shall slay them that they shall utterly be destroyed; and the people of Canaan shall divide themselves in the land, and the land shall be barren and unfruitful, and none other people shall dwell there but the people of Canaan;
8 For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.
9 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: Look; and I looked, and I beheld the land of Sharon, and the land of Enoch, and the land of Omner, and the land of Heni, and the land of Shem, and the land of Haner, and the land of Hanannihah, and all the inhabitants thereof;
10 And the Lord said unto me: Go to this people, and say unto them—Repent, lest I come out and smite them with a curse, and they die.
11 And he gave unto me a commandment that I should baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, which is full of grace and truth, and of the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and the Son.
12 And it came to pass that Enoch continued to call upon all the people, save it were the people of Canaan, to repent;
13 And so great was the faith of Enoch that he led the people of God, and their enemies came to battle against them; and he spake the word of the Lord, and the earth trembled, and the mountains fled, even according to his command; and the rivers of water were turned out of their course; and the roar of the lions was heard out of the wilderness; and all nations feared greatly, so powerful was the word of Enoch, and so great was the power of the language which God had given him.
14 There also came up a land out of the depth of the sea, and so great was the fear of the enemies of the people of God, that they fled and stood afar off and went upon the land which came up out of the depth of the sea.
15 And the giants of the land, also, stood afar off; and there went forth a curse upon all people that fought against God;
16 And from that time forth there were wars and bloodshed among them; but the Lord came and dwelt with his people, and they dwelt in righteousness.
17 The fear of the Lord was upon all nations, so great was the glory of the Lord, which was upon his people. And the Lord blessed the land, and they were blessed upon the mountains, and upon the high places, and did flourish.
18 And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them.
19 And Enoch continued his preaching in righteousness unto the people of God. And it came to pass in his days, that he built a city that was called the City of Holiness, even Zion.
20 And it came to pass that Enoch talked with the Lord; and he said unto the Lord: Surely Zion shall dwell in safety forever. But the Lord said unto Enoch: Zion have I blessed, but the residue of the people have I cursed.
21 And it came to pass that the Lord showed unto Enoch all the inhabitants of the earth; and he beheld, and lo, Zion, in process of time, was taken up into heaven. And the Lord said unto Enoch: Behold mine abode forever.
22 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.
23 And after that Zion was taken up into heaven, Enoch beheld, and lo, all the nations of the earth were before him;
24 And there came generation upon generation; and Enoch was high and lifted up, even in the bosom of the Father, and of the Son of Man; and behold, the power of Satan was upon all the face of the earth.
25 And he saw angels descending out of heaven; and he heard a loud voice saying: Wo, wo be unto the inhabitants of the earth.
26 And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 21, 2010, 06:03:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/kw94TwKqH_c
Classics...... :yes:
27 And Enoch beheld angels descending out of heaven, bearing testimony of the Father and Son; and the Holy Ghost fell on many, and they were caught up by the powers of heaven into Zion.
28 And it came to pass that the God of heaven looked upon the residue of the people, and he wept; and Enoch bore record of it, saying: How is it that the heavens weep, and shed forth their tears as the rain upon the mountains?
29 And Enoch said unto the Lord: How is it that thou canst weep, seeing thou art holy, and from all eternity to all eternity?
30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;
31 And thou hast taken Zion to thine own bosom, from all thy creations, from all eternity to all eternity; and naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end; how is it thou canst weep?
32 The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency;
33 And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father; but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood;
34 And the fire of mine indignation is kindled against them; and in my hot displeasure will I send in the floods upon them, for my fierce anger is kindled against them.
35 Behold, I am God; Man of Holiness is my name; Man of Counsel is my name; and Endless and Eternal is my name, also.
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Small things amuse small minds... :yes:
http://www.youtube.com/v/BTRMZk-l_VY
Quote from: Palehorse on June 21, 2010, 08:11:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/BTRMZk-l_VY
:egypt: :dance2: :party: :thumbsup: :coffee:
Quote from: JANADELE on June 21, 2010, 08:08:28 PM
Small things amuse small minds... :yes:
They weren't all that small. A good D at least! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: JANADELE on June 21, 2010, 08:08:28 PM
Small things amuse small minds... :yes:
She doesn't get it. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :flap: :flap: :preach: :genius:
Quote from: The Troll on June 22, 2010, 08:22:20 AM
She doesn't get it. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :flap: :flap: :preach: :genius:
Maybe she does. She took down the picture.
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed." NASB (I think the doctrine of mormonism is tantamount to a "contrary gospel.")
I also believe it to possibly be demonic in origin.
Quote from: Doc on June 23, 2010, 07:52:13 PM
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed." NASB (I think the doctrine of mormonism is tantamount to a "contrary gospel.")
I also believe it to possibly be demonic in origin.
To all of you religious Nuts. :groan:
Hey........
I'd love to see a good ol' knock-down, drag 'em out brawl between xtian groups.
All in the name of a peaceful gawd, of course.
Quote from: followsthewolf on June 23, 2010, 07:59:26 PM
Hey........
I'd love to see a good ol' knock-down, drag 'em out brawl between xtian groups.
All in the name of a peaceful gawd, of course.
No, no my God better than your God. My God is stronger than yours. My God can "Smite" you better. :dam: will someone say Amem! And put something in the pot, no checks please. :yes: :angel:
Quote from: followsthewolf on June 23, 2010, 07:59:26 PM
Hey........
I'd love to see a good ol' knock-down, drag 'em out brawl between xtian groups.
All in the name of a peaceful gawd, of course.
May God have mercy on your soul and grant you peace. You need it.
Quote from: The Troll on June 23, 2010, 08:08:43 PM
No, no my God better than your God. My God is stronger than yours. My God can "Smite" you better. :dam: will someone say Amem! And put something in the pot, no checks please. :yes: :angel:
For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity--the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5 So get lost.
Quote from: Doc on June 23, 2010, 08:11:59 PM
May God have mercy on your soul and grant you peace. You need it.
Thanks for analyzing my needs.
You xtians are good at that.
Telling everyone else what they need, of course.
"Gimmee that ol' time religion......"
Quote from: followsthewolf on June 23, 2010, 07:59:26 PM
Hey........
I'd love to see a good ol' knock-down, drag 'em out brawl between xtian groups.
All in the name of a peaceful gawd, of course.
Modern version of the crusades! :biggrin:
Isn't that "crusades" crap what got the west and the east into this shiathole mess in the first place?
OOOOOoooooooohhhhhhh yeeaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!! back in the days when xtians had a mission of converting the whole world to xtianity and making war................oooooooohhhhhh. That's gonna hurt for centuries.......maybe longer.
Oooooops. It has. And is.
We don't need no stinking muslims! We got xtians to bring the holy wars here!
Quote from: followsthewolf on June 23, 2010, 07:59:26 PM
Hey........
I'd love to see a good ol' knock-down, drag 'em out brawl between xtian groups.
All in the name of a peaceful gawd, of course.
PAR-TEE!!! PAR-TEE!! PAR-TEE!!
It's ......................
TOGA PARTY TIME!!!
TO-GA! TO-GA! TO-GA! TO-GA!
(DON'T BE PEEKIN AT MY JUNK!)
Uh-oh. I think my Crudité platter may be out of place.
Ya'll hold on. I'll go get a couple kegs.
Make on Yuengling Black and Tan.
Or Dortmunder Gold, please.
Well foo-ey (that's a compromise 'cause I'm in the "moderated" section,) if ya'll want top-shelf refreshments, it's gonna half to be BYOB. I'm bringing Black Jack.
Quote from: Palehorse on June 23, 2010, 08:48:04 PM
TO-GA! TO-GA! TO-GA! TO-GA!
(DON'T BE PEEKIN AT MY JUNK!)
:eye: :biggrin:
Quote from: Doc on June 23, 2010, 08:11:59 PM
May God have mercy on your soul and grant you peace. You need it.
I'll bet your a miserable old son-of-a-bitch to be around. I can see all of your freind gathered around having a good time. :rotfl: Like, Hey, Doc, let's get a six pack (beer) and some bait and I'll get my bass boat and we will go fishing :fish: and have a real good time. You wouldn't know what a good time is, with all of that smiteing and cry and bitching, like all Teabagging Republicans do.
And as far as having a soul, I think you're right. There is no God, never has been and there will never be. What in hell would I need a soul for. If I had religion, being around you, I'm quite sure I would loose it. :rotfl: :rotfl: To you Doc, :tiphat:
Where did you go Doc. I was waiting for some smitting, hell raising, going to hell sermon. :preach: :pray: and the Holy :ghost: