http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788&sc=fb&cc=fp
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QuoteAs the hijackers boarded the airplanes on Sept. 11, 2001, they had a lot on their minds. And if they were following instructions, one of those things was the Quran.
In preparation for the suicide attack, their handlers had told them to meditate on two chapters of the Quran in which God tells Muslims to "cast terror into the hearts of unbelievers."
"Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them," Allah instructs the Prophet Muhammad (Quran, 9:5). He continues: "Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites! ... Hell shall be their home, an evil fate."
When Osama bin Laden declared war on the West in 1996, he cited the Quran's command to "strike off" the heads of unbelievers. More recently, U.S. Army Maj. Nidal Hasan lectured his colleagues about jihad, or "holy war," and the Quran's exhortation to fight unbelievers and bring them low. Hasan is accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, last year.
Given this violent legacy, religion historian Philip Jenkins decided to compare the brutality quotient of the Quran and the Bible.
Defense Vs. Total Annihilation
"Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible," Jenkins says.
Jenkins is a professor at Penn State University and author of two books dealing with the issue: the recently published Jesus Wars, and Dark Passages , which has not been published but is already drawing controversy.
Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible.
- Philip Jenkins, author of 'Jesus Wars'
Violence in the Quran, he and others say, is largely a defense against attack.
"By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane," he says. "Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide."
It is called herem, and it means total annihilation. Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites: "And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."
When Saul failed to do that, God took away his kingdom.
"In other words," Jenkins says, "Saul has committed a dreadful sin by failing to complete genocide. And that passage echoes through Christian history. It is often used, for example, in American stories of the confrontation with Indians — not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not."
Jenkins notes that the history of Christianity is strewn with herem. During the Crusades in the Middle Ages, the Catholic popes declared the Muslims Amalekites. In the great religious wars in the 16th, 17th and 19th centuries, Protestants and Catholics each believed the other side were the Amalekites and should be utterly destroyed.
My favorite term from this article is "Holy Amnesty"...Holy Shit! :nowink:
well, i will give you my ..... :2cents: ....the bible DOES have more "violent" references or passages in it than the Quran does....but for me, being a Christian, understanding the Bible and in intent, does NOT make you more violent...the violence in the Bible simply simply foreshadows what we humans are capable of....we are sinners...everyone of us......and we live in a cruel world full of good and evil....but the Bible builds up to salvation and redemption...it pretty much tells us how to deal with evil....we all have choices to make, and the Bible thrives on not doing evil, but doing what is good and pleasing to the God OF the Bible....
it is not complicating to me, although it can overwhelm me when I get into deep discussions on the Bible...but, for me, it is a fantastic read...and has answers (in my opinion) to anything that you need in order to survive on this planet....
as far as the Quran?.....I really don't know much about it....
The authors of the bible were quite fond of the word smite. There was smiting going on all through it. It encourages folks to engage in smiting today and should be subjected to the NC17 reading restriction!
Quote from: Palehorse on March 19, 2010, 12:39:35 PM
The authors of the bible were quite fond of the word smite. There was smiting going on all through it. It encourages folks to engage in smiting today and should be subjected to the NC17 reading restriction!
do you honestly believe that people want to smite others because of the Bible?........I can tell you, from a Christians perspective, that is bs.....those folks are only find reasons to smite, they are not truly a student of the Bible either....those folks would also want destroy Gothom City too, because the Riddle said so....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 19, 2010, 12:42:50 PM
do you honestly believe that people want to smite others because of the Bible?........I can tell you, from a Christians perspective, that is bs.....those folks are only find reasons to smite, they are not truly a student of the Bible either....those folks would also want destroy Gothom City too, because the Riddle said so....
Be careful you don't become a victim of a smiting smiter!
Passover was fairly violent.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on March 19, 2010, 12:47:31 PM
Passover was fairly violent.
Yep. Let's kill the first born male child of every household. . . Then let's smear blood over the doorway. . .
how about ethnic cleansing wars?....they was pretty violent and the Bible or the Quran had anything to do with it...by Nazi's, South Africans,Rwandan's....then there was civil wars, not biblical related....AND violent....so, violence is NOT just a religous thing...it is a greed thing that has been the root to ALL evil since the beginning of time.
The Sunni Shiite thing in the middle east is rooted in religion. As were many of the things you quoted Henry, as well as the Inquisition and the Crusades. . . Religion, religion, religion. . . War, war, war. . . Each one seated in the bible or other religious texts. . .
I'm not defending what has happened and why, but I'm simply pointing out there has been plenty of violence that had NOTHING whatsoever to do with the Bible.....or God.....the civil war, and the nazi's claimed quite a few lives very violently for selfish reasons other than God.
I have never read the Quran and have no intension to read it. The old testament and the old testament god he was one bloody S.O,B, when it came to totally destroying whole cities, killing every man, woman, ox, sheep and burn it to the ground. Hell he was smiting and killing everyone.
Now you can tell a group of greedy of "holy" men wrote it, was, God told to King David to attack Jericho and after he took it. God told him to kill every man, every woman, every ox, every sheep and burn the city down. BUT, take all of the gold, silver, copper and iron a bring it out and give unto the Lord. Well, we all know the Lord hasn't any use for all of the stuff. I like a TV reported asked one of the TV preachers how he knew how much money God need. He said, "I take the money into our vault, I pray and throw all of the money into the air and we take what hits the floor, what God didn't want."
Hell, it makes sense to me. I could go on and on and on, but he was so bad that the "Holy" men decided, we got to change this book, we're driving everyone a way. So they got Jesus to die on the cross, started talking about taking care of the poor, how kind he was, he die on a cross for your sins, which people wouldn't have had if God hadn't caused Adam and Eve to sin with the snake in the garden in the first place, sound to a lot of people fell for it. It sounds good to me.
The new testament has been rewritten and rewritten and rewritten and rewritten, that there is over 100 versions of it. It is the number #1 sold book in America. Only in America.
The Troll
Henry, Hitler was a Christan but that's not the point. It's not which book or belief in the subject matter inspires more violence...it's which book contains more violence.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on March 19, 2010, 02:51:01 PM
Henry, Hitler was a Christan but that's not the point. It's not which book or belief in the subject matter inspires more violence...it's which book contains more violence.
I know Sandy, I was making a point, and Hitler WAS not a Christian, or he would NOT have done what he did...claiming yourself a Christian does not make you one...
The Holy Bible clearly has more that it's share of violent acts in it...but THAT, in my opinion does not disturb it's intent, as a mater of fact, it only enhances the whole meaning to what God intended....
Hitler was a Catholic.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 19, 2010, 12:39:35 PM
The authors of the bible were quite fond of the word smite. There was smiting going on all through it.
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I feel sorry for Moses.
All that service, and he takes a holy smite for smacking a rock with his staff.
Poor doofus.
Henry, henry, I know you're only form of reading is the newspaper, and the BIBLE and Fox news and Glen Beck. But, FACTOID, in the book, THE END OF THE THIRD REICH, the author stated Hitler was born a Catholic and through out his rein of power he spoke of his religion, that he considered himself a Catholic,
Your state he couldn't be a Christian and murder all of those people and eight million Jews. That what you said, more or less, but not exactally, I want to be as close as I can, so when I state what you said. Because all of your friends and youself start screaming, "THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID!"
What about Jim Jones who got all of his Christan flock to drink poison Kool-aid. And what about the bunch of crazy right wing Christan wingnuts lead by pastor Phelps, who now have a case in the Supreme Court, calling all of soldiers, faggots, maggots, and many foul terms at the service man funerals.
There is a whole bunch of crazy Christan nuts. I hope that when you are your most fervent religious zeal, that you don't step over the edge.
My bad 442 I get all those peaceful religions confused confused :biggrin:
So how does speaking to God's violent and quite hateful acts "enhance" the intent of the bible?
Doncha know, Troll? "They weren't REAL Christians" - although, in their defense, the did think they were acting on the "word" it's just those that disagree who take the title away from them.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 19, 2010, 03:33:02 PM
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
God goes modern!