Quote
The faith-based thinking of many conservatives spreads and contaminates the rational. No wonder so many buy the right-wing's absurd propaganda.
Something strange has happened in America in the nine months since Barack Obama was elected. It has best been summarised by the comedian Bill Maher: "The Democrats have moved to the right, and the Republicans have moved to a mental hospital."
The election of Obama - a black man with an anti-conservative message - as a successor to George W. Bush has scrambled the core American right's view of their country. In their gut, they saw the US as a white-skinned, right-wing nation forever shaped like Sarah Palin.
http://www.alternet.org/belief/142144/have_republicans_turned_into_a_weird_religious_cult/?comments=view&cID=1301797&pID=1301668
Sad, but true
That's an excellent article. I'd like to hear some of our few conservatives refute what's being said there.
Its a BS article and I'll get into it more later but my supper is about done and I don't have the time to go into it at the moment. Not all said on the right is propaganda like the left is claiming.
Quote from: me on September 13, 2009, 05:21:39 PM
Not all said on the right is propaganda like the left is claiming.
Huh? You missed the point. The article decries the growing trend of the conservatives to reject documented fact and rely on magical thinking and Big Lies to promote their prejudices -- very much like organized religion does.
Instead of slinging the same old whines, show me some logic to refute the claim. Because it is very persuasive.
Quote from: LOsborne on September 13, 2009, 06:31:44 PM
Huh? You missed the point. The article decries the growing trend of the conservatives to reject documented fact and rely on magical thinking and Big Lies to promote their prejudices -- very much like organized religion does.
Instead of slinging the same old whines, show me some logic to refute the claim. Because it is very persuasive.
I'm planning on reading the article when I know I'm not gonna get interrupted 20 times by the phone and hubby wanting something and other distractions that go on during the day and then I might, I say
might, agree but based on what little I did read that is my comment for now.
A sweeping broad generalization of a group of people. I agree that there are some people who are being over zealous in opposing the proposed health care bill, but if anyone cared to listen there are many, many people who have good serious questions about the proposed health care plan. IMO the Democrats are making matters worse by refusing to answer perfectly reasonable questions and only choose to respond to those who are making unfounded statements and by the people President Obama is choosing for his "czars". Some of those people have some strange things in their backgrounds. Makes you wonder if anyone checked them out before they were given their jobs.
Quote from: me on September 13, 2009, 07:25:36 PM
I'm planning on reading the article when I know I'm not gonna get interrupted 20 times by the phone and hubby wanting something and other distractions that go on during the day...
So you decided it was a "BS article" before you even read it...classic!
Quote from: Anne on September 13, 2009, 09:58:23 PM
... there are many, many people who have good serious questions about the proposed health care plan. IMO the Democrats are making matters worse by refusing to answer perfectly reasonable questions ...
Yeah. Like... are those "death panels" going to be natural wood, or just plastic laminate that looks like wood?
[quote author=LOsborne link=topic :rolleyes:
No, like how will this be paid for, what is covered, what is going to keep employers from dropping health plans and forcing employees onto the public option, what will happen to Medicare Advantage when they cut 137 million dollars from it, etc.
I don't know why people think that a public option is a new thing. My state, up until 3 years ago, would only allow me to have the free state health care plan. It was cheap and easy for my employers, but was not necessarily the best health care option. If you had dependents, then you were basically working to pay for them because the rate to add anyone on your policy was ridiculous.
Recently we added a PPO and I purchased the 90/10. I was just notified that they will no longer be offering the 90/10 and I'll have to go to the 80/20. Although the 80/20 is free each month, it costs me way more in visits and prescriptions. If health care reform can stop this kind of bullshit from happening, then I'm all for it. My state is trying to save a buck any way it can and I'm afraid dental and eye are next on the chopping block. That is something I DO NOT want to have to pay out of pocket.
Quote from: Anne on September 14, 2009, 08:52:32 AM
No, like how will this be paid for, what is covered, what is going to keep employers from dropping health plans and forcing employees onto the public option, what will happen to Medicare Advantage when they cut 137 million dollars from it, etc.
Sugar, read the House bill. Many of your answers are in it. Not the one about how you keep employers from dropping though. Nothing keeps employers from dropping healthcare plans
now so why would anything do it in the future?
Read the bill. There is no incentive for employers to keep their health care for workers, now they have a reason to drop it, they pay less in penalty and no one will be able to negoiate a health care option into a contract. Taking money from Medicare advantage will put more people in jeopardy of losing their homes because they will have to pay more for their healthcare. President Obama is the only one except for Mrs. Pelosi who says that the health care will be deficit neutral. Even the non partisan budget office says it wil add billions of dollars to the deficit. There has to be a better way. And my name is not Sugar.
Quote from: Anne on September 14, 2009, 10:01:07 PM
Read the bill.
I have read it.
QuoteThere is no incentive for employers to keep their health care for workers, now they have a reason to drop it, they pay less in penalty and no one will be able to negoiate a health care option into a contract.
The only incentive there has ever been for employers to keep the health benefit programs, is to attract the best employees. With the current jobless market, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to keep healthcare on the compensation table. There are no penalties for dropping it currently. Dependent coverage has already been priced out of reach for many people still lucky enough to have jobs.
QuoteTaking money from Medicare advantage will put more people in jeopardy of losing their homes because they will have to pay more for their healthcare.
Medicare is already a government subsidized program. If a public option makes it redundant, why not scrap it? We don't need two healthcare programs run by the government.
QuotePresident Obama is the only one except for Mrs. Pelosi who says that the health care will be deficit neutral. Even the non partisan budget office says it wil add billions of dollars to the deficit.
Who cares? Deficit spending is our lot now, thanks to the Wall Street, banking industry and automotive industry bailouts. I fail to see how deficit spending to fund healthcare is more heinous than these actions. Why is it acceptable to rescue banks and insurers, but too expensive to provide preventive care to the workforce?
QuoteThere has to be a better way.
I agree. That's why I advocate revolution.
QuoteAnd my name is not Sugar.
It's a term of endearment. But I can call you Scrooge, if you prefer.
Quote from: LOsborne on September 14, 2009, 10:17:57 PM
It's a term of endearment. But I can call you Scrooge, if you prefer.
LOL!!! Too cute.
Quote from: LOsborne on September 14, 2009, 10:17:57 PM
I have read it.The only incentive there has ever been for employers to keep the health benefit programs, is to attract the best employees. With the current jobless market, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to keep healthcare on the compensation table. There are no penalties for dropping it currently. Dependent coverage has already been priced out of reach for many people still lucky enough to have jobs.
Medicare is already a government subsidized program. If a public option makes it redundant, why not scrap it? We don't need two healthcare programs run by the government. Who cares? Deficit spending is our lot now, thanks to the Wall Street, banking industry and automotive industry bailouts. I fail to see how deficit spending to fund healthcare is more heinous than these actions. Why is it acceptable to rescue banks and insurers, but too expensive to provide preventive care to the workforce? I agree. That's why I advocate revolution.It's a term of endearment. But I can call you Scrooge, if you prefer.
Do you know the difference between Medicare and Medicare Advantage? I think you can find many people who are over 65 who care very much care. What makes them less deserving of affordable health care? I didn't say deficiet spending was worse for healthcare, just that it is going to ruin this country, if it isn't already too late. If you don't want to call me by my name, try Domestic Diva. That is what I prefer instead of Sugar or as one poster called me, a worn out bored housewife. :)
Quote from: Anne on September 14, 2009, 11:48:07 PM
Do you know the difference between Medicare and Medicare Advantage?
Medicare Advantage is HMO's or PPN's for Medicare. A Medicare user who belongs to such a plan gets better coverage, at the cost of more limited options in terms of doctors and facilities. Just like every HMO and PPN for people who aren't on Medicare. Why would you think Medicare HMO's and PPN's would go away, unless they go away for those under 65 too? That's up to the insurance companies, I would think.
QuoteIf you don't want to call me by my name, try Domestic Diva. That is what I prefer instead of Sugar or as one poster called me, a worn out bored housewife. :)
I like Domestic Diva, but personally I've always been partial to Grand High Poobah of the Known Universe. Whoever called you a "worn out bored housewife" was surely overcompensating for something. ;)
I don't think Medicare Advantage would go away, but with all that money taken away they will be paying less, which in turn causes the insured to pay much more or pay additional money to buy another supplemental policy. That is money many elderly people cannot afford. It would be taking money away from people who sometimes have very little to begin with. Now you have one more group who are in danger of going under. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I just don't see how they are going to get trillions of dollars without raising everyone's taxes. If that is what they have to do then say it and quit lying. If they want a single payer like Canada or the UK then do it. Pick a day and say this is hapening on such and such a day and get it over with, quit lying about it. There are lots of insurance plans around for people of limited means, CHIP and SHIP are two. I guess my point is that there should be a way to cover people who want insurance and can't afford it without messing up everyone else's insurance.
Off subject, but when my daughter lived in SC all the children there called me Miss Anne, I thought it was cute. It also reminded me of a dance teacher in town. She is retired now but taught for about 40 years, I think. I think three fourths of the little girls in town took lessons from her.