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The Unknown Zone © Forums => The Rough House © (Unmoderated Open Forum) => Topic started by: Palehorse on August 20, 2009, 11:14:16 AM

Title: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: Palehorse on August 20, 2009, 11:14:16 AM
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c111zLRpxw: (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c111zLRpxw:)

SEC. 101. LICENSING REQUIREMENT.

Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(aa) Firearm Licensing Requirement-

`(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license--

`(A) under title I of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under that title; or

`(B) pursuant to a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under State law.

`(2) APPLICABLE DATE- In this subsection, the term `applicable date' means--

`(A) with respect to a qualifying firearm that is acquired by the person before the date of the enactment of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, 2 years after such date of enactment; and

`(B) with respect to a qualifying firearm that is acquired by the person on or after the date of the enactment of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, 1 year after such date of enactment.'.

SEC. 102. APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS.

(a) In General- In order to be issued a firearm license under this title, an individual shall submit to the Attorney General (in accordance with the regulations promulgated under subsection (b)) an application, which shall include--

(1) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant;

(2) the name, address, and date and place of birth of the applicant;

(3) any other name that the applicant has ever used or by which the applicant has ever been known;

(4) a clear thumb print of the applicant, which shall be made when, and in the presence of the entity to whom, the application is submitted;

(5) with respect to each category of person prohibited by Federal law, or by the law of the State of residence of the applicant, from obtaining a firearm, a statement that the individual is not a person prohibited from obtaining a firearm;

(6) a certification by the applicant that the applicant will keep any firearm owned by the applicant safely stored and out of the possession of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;

(7) a certificate attesting to the completion at the time of application of a written firearms examination, which shall test the knowledge and ability of the applicant regarding--

(A) the safe storage of firearms, particularly in the vicinity of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;

(B) the safe handling of firearms;

(C) the use of firearms in the home and the risks associated with such use;

(D) the legal responsibilities of firearms owners, including Federal, State, and local laws relating to requirements for the possession and storage of firearms, and relating to reporting requirements with respect to firearms; and

(E) any other subjects, as the Attorney General determines to be appropriate;

(8) an authorization by the applicant to release to the Attorney General or an authorized representative of the Attorney General any mental health records pertaining to the applicant;

(9) the date on which the application was submitted; and

(10) the signature of the applicant.

(b) Regulations Governing Submission- The Attorney General shall promulgate regulations specifying procedures for the submission of applications to the Attorney General under this section, which regulations shall--

(1) provide for submission of the application through a licensed dealer or an office or agency of the Federal Government designated by the Attorney General;

(2) require the applicant to provide a valid identification document (as defined in section 1028(d)(2) of title 18, United States Code) of the applicant, containing a photograph of the applicant, to the licensed dealer or to the office or agency of the Federal Government, as applicable, at the time of submission of the application to that dealer, office, or agency; and

(3) require that a completed application be forwarded to the Attorney General not later than 48 hours after the application is submitted to the licensed dealer or office or agency of the Federal Government, as applicable.

(c) Fees-

(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall charge and collect from each applicant for a license under this title a fee in an amount determined in accordance with paragraph (2).

(2) FEE AMOUNT- The amount of the fee collected under this subsection shall be not less than the amount determined by the Attorney General to be necessary to ensure that the total amount of all fees collected under this subsection during a fiscal year is sufficient to cover the costs of carrying out this title during that fiscal year, except that such amount shall not exceed $25.

SEC. 103. ISSUANCE OF LICENSE.

(a) In General- The Attorney General shall issue a firearm license to an applicant who has submitted an application that meets the requirements of section 102 of this Act, if the Attorney General ascertains that the individual is not prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm.

(b) Effect of Issuance to Prohibited Person- A firearm license issued under this section shall be null and void if issued to a person who is prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm.

(c) Form of License- A firearm license issued under this section shall be in the form of a tamper-resistant card, and shall include--

(1) the photograph of the licensed individual submitted with the application;

(2) the address of the licensed individual;

(3) the date of birth of the licensed individual;

(4) a license number, unique to each licensed individual;

(5) the expiration date of the license, which shall be the date that is 5 years after the initial anniversary of the date of birth of the licensed individual following the date on which the license is issued (or in the case of a license renewal, following the date on which the license is renewed under section 104);

(6) the signature of the licensed individual provided on the application, or a facsimile of the application; and

(7) centered at the top of the license, capitalized, and in boldface type, the following:

`FIREARM LICENSE--NOT VALID FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE'.


Bobby Rush presented this tripe to congress for approval. Read through it. I did and I am not a happy camper.
I already have jumped through these hoops for concealed carry permit, and now I have to jump through them, take a test, and pay a fee just to maintain my right to own a firearm? Bullshit!

All this is going to do is further retrict law abiding citizens from keeping and bearing arms. PLUS provide the government with a detailed list of each firearm you own. (All the better for collecting them?)

Read it. . . It is bullshit! :rant:
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: me on August 20, 2009, 11:42:49 AM
And it isn't even going to slow the person down who deals in weapons for unlawful purposes.  It will just make it harder for the honest citizen to protect himself.  Guess we're about to find out if the NRA has any pull at all.
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: Elaine on August 20, 2009, 11:49:21 AM
Those of us who register our firearms, and have permits will be the first houses they visit for collection.

scary
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: LOsborne on August 20, 2009, 07:00:34 PM
I didn't notice a provision that you have to wear a helmet while carrying. Or a seat belt. How does anyone expect it to pass without these basic safety requirements?

That was sarcasm, in case anyone couldn't tell.
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: me on August 20, 2009, 08:20:09 PM
Quote from: LOsborne on August 20, 2009, 07:00:34 PM
I didn't notice a provision that you have to wear a helmet while carrying. Or a seat belt. How does anyone expect it to pass without these basic safety requirements?

That was sarcasm, in case anyone couldn't tell.
:biggrin:
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: dan foster on August 21, 2009, 09:20:08 PM
Quote from: LOsborne on August 20, 2009, 07:00:34 PM
I didn't notice a provision that you have to wear a helmet while carrying. Or a seat belt. How does anyone expect it to pass without these basic safety requirements?

That was sarcasm, in case anyone couldn't tell.

Gun owners should be qualified to own them.  Pretty simple.
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: kimmi on August 22, 2009, 08:46:07 AM
I have no problems with the government wanting to know mental medical records for people who buy guns!  People that go shoot up their places of employment or places of education don't buy their guns off the street.  They buy them out right and clearly they have mental issues!!  Most of the time there is a long history of mental issues!! 

Why was I thinking that in order to have a gun now, you had to have a license? 
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: dan foster on August 22, 2009, 10:32:18 PM
Quote from: kimmi on August 22, 2009, 08:46:07 AM
I have no problems with the government wanting to know mental medical records for people who buy guns!  People that go shoot up their places of employment or places of education don't buy their guns off the street.  They buy them out right and clearly they have mental issues!!  Most of the time there is a long history of mental issues!! 

Why was I thinking that in order to have a gun now, you had to have a license?

Guns should be licensed and illegal to own, otherwise.  And yes, the illegal ones should be dealt with, when caught, with very long jail time.  No one is going to "water the tree of liberty" and fend off the gov't with a handgun.  No, not thousands.  Not even millions.  The gov't has F16 and 18's.  They can carry nukes.  They can roll right over your handgun.  So, register it, license yourself to have it, give it up when they find out you are crazy, but don't give me this shit about the right to bear arms, without the insurance to go with it that you aren't about to shoot up your fucking class or work mates.  You want to hunt?  You don't use handguns for that, and again, the gov't will mash your rifle into little pieces with it's tanks.  Who the hell thinks they can fight off the gov't with their rifle and a few die hard militia men.  If you think you can, you shouldn't be able to own a gun.
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: Exterminator on August 23, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
Quote from: dan foster on August 22, 2009, 10:32:18 PM
Guns should be licensed and illegal to own, otherwise.  And yes, the illegal ones should be dealt with, when caught, with very long jail time.  No one is going to "water the tree of liberty" and fend off the gov't with a handgun.  No, not thousands.  Not even millions.  The gov't has F16 and 18's.  They can carry nukes.  They can roll right over your handgun.  So, register it, license yourself to have it, give it up when they find out you are crazy, but don't give me this shit about the right to bear arms, without the insurance to go with it that you aren't about to shoot up your fucking class or work mates.  You want to hunt?  You don't use handguns for that, and again, the gov't will mash your rifle into little pieces with it's tanks.  Who the hell thinks they can fight off the gov't with their rifle and a few die hard militia men.  If you think you can, you shouldn't be able to own a gun.

It's a little more complicated than that, Dan.  The Posse Comitatus Act generally prohibits the U.S. military from being used against its own citizens and should that ever occur, there will be mayhem.  Soldiers swear an oath to defend the Constitution and are under no obligation to follow orders that violate it.  Additionally, most of the people who are in control of the weapons you mention would be unwilling to use them against their mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. and those weapons then become part of the arsenal being used against the government rather than to further its agenda.

Similarly, given the number of handguns in circulation, any requirement to begin registering them now would be an exercise in futility and is unnecessary.  We have very adequate gun laws in this country; they simply need to be enforced.
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: followsthewolf on August 23, 2009, 06:16:04 AM
Adding a P.S. and responding to Dan's post --

People DO hunt with handguns. I am one of them.
Title: Re: HR 45 - Infringement to Our Right to Bear Arms?
Post by: dan foster on August 23, 2009, 09:14:43 AM
Quote from: Exterminator on August 23, 2009, 01:45:23 AM
It's a little more complicated than that, Dan.  The Posse Comitatus Act generally prohibits the U.S. military from being used against its own citizens and should that ever occur, there will be mayhem.  Soldiers swear an oath to defend the Constitution and are under no obligation to follow orders that violate it.  Additionally, most of the people who are in control of the weapons you mention would be unwilling to use them against their mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. and those weapons then become part of the arsenal being used against the government rather than to further its agenda.

Similarly, given the number of handguns in circulation, any requirement to begin registering them now would be an exercise in futility and is unnecessary.  We have very adequate gun laws in this country; they simply need to be enforced.

I don't necessarily disagree.  I am a strict Constitutionalist and have no real problem with the 2nd Amendment.  However, I would like to see registration and required training for those who wish to own a gun.  There really aren't any contemporary arguments that would prohibit the licensing and education of gun owners.  The children accidentally killed by guns each year, alone, warrants the education part.   You will need to find a good contemporary argument that licensing is some sort of "infringement".  Without licensing, the crazies can go to any gun show and pick up an AK.  I don't believe there is a Constitutional argument that would support the claim that licensing is an infringement on the right.  Please provide one.  The idea that licensing gives the gov't the ability to "know who and where you are" and that makes it easier for them to begin the "confiscation" process, is pretty lame.  The gov't doesn't need to confiscate your weapon for the reasons stated earlier (see pic). 

As to the Posse act, that was torn up during Bush I, Clinton threw it out the window with troops in TX (drug war), and cheney/bush wanted to expand it even farther by sending troops into Buffalo, NY (GWOT).  If the gov't is the oppressor that the guns are needed as "resistance", or even armed overthrow, which act do you think will stop them?