at last nights press conference, Obama admitted to not having the facts, but yet claimed that the police acted...'stupidly' to what led to the arrest of black Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr
Obama has again proved to be a poor leader, by making comments on this, without having the FACTS....on an issue that should NOT have been on the National News, but NOW it is, and it is a racial issue because of our President......who is supposed to be bringing us ALL together.....
Gates Arresting Officer: Obama 'Way Off Base' (http://wbztv.com/local/obama.comment.cambridge.2.1097782.html)
full arrest report.. (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html)
And if the police hadn't responded he would have yelled discrimination saying they didn't respond because they knew a black man owned the house and they didn't care. How was that officer supposed to know who he was? Why pull the race card on the officer who was just doing his job. Would he have done the same if it had been a black officer who came out?
If the police hadn't responded. He would have been inside his house, and not known that anyone had called the police. He would have nothing to yell about.
But I would say, he was pretty paranoid to start with, immediately getting hostile at the presence of the police officer. You would think a Harvard Prof would be a little calmer.
Quote from: pariann on July 23, 2009, 01:14:16 PM
If the police hadn't responded. He would have been inside his house, and not known that anyone had called the police. He would have nothing to yell about.
But I would say, he was pretty paranoid to start with, immediately getting hostile at the presence of the police officer. You would think a Harvard Prof would be a little calmer.
it is HE (Gates) who is RACIEST and Obama proved to show a little himself last night......he should have said NO comment...He is a friend of mine, and I do not have the facts....it is NOT his place to be a jury and call the Cambridge Police and the officers ...."acting stupidly".........very, very unclassy.
Quote from: pariann on July 23, 2009, 01:14:16 PM
If the police hadn't responded. He would have been inside his house, and not known that anyone had called the police. He would have nothing to yell about.
But I would say, he was pretty paranoid to start with, immediately getting hostile at the presence of the police officer. You would think a Harvard Prof would be a little calmer.
I would imagine the neighbor who called the police in the first place would have said something to him about thinking they thought someone breaking in and calling and no one showing up. I know if I had thought I seen someone breaking into a neighbor's house and called and didn't see the police show up I would say something to them.
Maybe....but the neighbor might not be on friendly terms with the home owner, and might choose to keep their mouth shut once they realized they made an error on who was entering the house.
There are other things I wonder, like if they were returning from a trip, was the car parked where it could be seen? I know what my neighbors drive. And it was in the afternoon, so it was pretty light outside, why didn't she recognize the man trying to enter the house? WHY would a thief be trying to push a front door open in broad daylight? I would think the goal would to enter in a way that they wouldn't be caught.
Not saying she should have minded her own business. He was gone on a trip and it was good she noticed what she considered strange activity. She must not have been too fearful, she was standing on the sidewalk in front of the house, so I wonder if she had already figured out it was the professor entering his own house. I would have been wary of possible gun shots if it had been burglars and would have stayed in my own house until after the big to-do was over. But that's just me, I'm a coward. LOL
His house has been broken into recently and there has been other break ins around the neighborhood....THAT is why the lady called the police.
The President acted stupidly...it is very unpresidential.....and again show WHY he should NOT be in office......he should have kept his mouth shut, and made NO comment....
there should be more outrage..............but, I'm sure I'll get the Bush's fault crap....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 23, 2009, 01:21:21 PM
it is HE (Gates) who is RACIEST and Obama proved to show a little himself last night......he should have said NO comment...He is a friend of mine, and I do not have the facts....it is NOT his place to be a jury and call the Cambridge Police and the officers ...."acting stupidly".........very, very unclassy.
Well you don't have the facts either but don't have any problem running your mouth about it. From what I understand, Gates was arrested even
after the police had established who he was and that it was his house. If they hadn't been in the wrong, they wouldn't have dropped the charges.
While you have often expressed your disdain for that pesky Constitution of ours, do you want the police coming to your house demanding your ID and arresting you on your own property?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 23, 2009, 02:15:11 PM
Well you don't have the facts either but don't have any problem running your mouth about it. From what I understand, Gates was arrested even after the police had established who he was and that it was his house. If they hadn't been in the wrong, they wouldn't have dropped the charges.
While you have often expressed your disdain for that pesky Constitution of ours, do you want the police coming to your house demanding your ID and arresting you on your own property?
did you read the police report?...........Gates was shouting at the officer, outside of his house...the officer warned Gates twice to calm down and warned him of his tumultuous behaviour....Gate's continued ...and the officer placed him under arrest...nothing un constitutional about this incident whatsoever.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 23, 2009, 02:30:26 PM
did you read the police report?...........Gates was shouting at the officer, outside of his house...the officer warned Gates twice to calm down and warned him of his tumultuous behaviour....Gate's continued ...and the officer placed him under arrest...nothing un constitutional about this incident whatsoever.
Here's a clue for you: in the absence of another crime like domestic abuse or unless something affects someone else like standing in the front yard throwing rocks at passing cars (property damage) or blaring music in the middle of the night (disturbing the peace), you can't arrest someone for being disorderly on his own property.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 23, 2009, 02:52:35 PM
you can't arrest someone for being disorderly on his own property.
here is a clue for you ...Massachusetts courts have limited the definition of disorderly conduct to: fighting or threatening, violent or
tumultuous behavior, or creating a hazardous or physically offensive condition for no legitimate purpose other than to cause public annoyance or alarm....the police allege that a crowd had formed outside Gates' property.... ;)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 23, 2009, 03:07:20 PM
here is a clue for you ...Massachusetts courts have limited the definition of disorderly conduct to: fighting or threatening, violent or tumultuous behavior, or creating a hazardous or physically offensive condition for no legitimate purpose other than to cause public annoyance or alarm....the police allege that a crowd had formed outside Gates' property.... ;)
If what he did was illegal, there would still be charges pending and the prosecutor's office refused to pursue the matter, ergo, you're wrong. All this was was some douche-bag cop with a chip on his shoulder who was abusing his authority. Trust me, not only have I been a law enforcement officer, I've been on the receiving end and the prosecutor wouldn't pursue those charges either.
Additionally, Henry, a friend of mine is currently a cop in Lawrence and he has been told in no uncertain terms to never charge someone with disorderly conduct on his/her own property because it can not be prosecuted. His superiors said that if you can't find anything else to charge them with, let them go.
even though you never show any respect towards me, I will respect your opinion, and you may very well be correct with your assessment....but take into account, he could have been dismissed because he IS a Black Professor from Harvard.............the bottom line for me is that all gates had to do was to cooperate with the officer....instead he has to make a big deal out of his being black......no doubt we shall soon see Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton bellyaching endlessly on TV about this man has been laid low by racism.....
and to stay with my original point of the thread.....Obama, was WRONG, imo, to comment on this issue, until he DID have all the facts.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 23, 2009, 03:57:34 PM
and to stay with my original point of the thread.....Obama, was WRONG, imo, to comment on this issue, until he DID have all the facts.
And like I said, despite your not having the facts (like whether or not it is unconstitutional to charge someone with being 'disorderly' on his own property), you went ahead and started running your mouth so what's the difference. You just like to bitch about the guy and I would submit that while you all profess so loudly otherwise, it is because he isn't white.
I have a question. I saw that Obama was talking on TV last night, but I was doing other things so I didn't listen to his speech. Did he comment because someone asked him about it? Or did he just pull it out of the air? I wonder because somehow, I don't see how one man being arrested, and then the charges dropped over the incident I've read about, is something that should have even been brought up on a national presidential broadcast. I need to know to the context of the comment to understand why it was said. Not whether it was right or wrong, just why it was mentioned period.
Quote from: pariann on July 23, 2009, 04:16:07 PM
I have a question. I saw that Obama was talking on TV last night, but I was doing other things so I didn't listen to his speech. Did he comment because someone asked him about it? Or did he just pull it out of the air? I wonder because somehow, I don't see how one man being arrested, and then the charges dropped over the incident I've read about, is something that should have even been brought up on a national presidential broadcast. I need to know to the context of the comment to understand why it was said. Not whether it was right or wrong, just why it was mentioned period.
a reporter brought up the incident....and he responded without having facts...which I thought was in poor taste...
Ex, say what you want about me........I have NO prejudice in my towards anybody of color......just liberals... :razz: If there was a black, gay, woman conservative...running against a white, chrisian liberal....I would stick with the conservative.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 23, 2009, 04:26:01 PM
Ex, say what you want about me........I have NO prejudice in my towards anybody of color......just liberals... :razz: If there was a black, gay, woman conservative...running against a white, chrisian liberal....I would stick with the conservative.
Right...you exposed yourself with your Jackson/Sharpton comment.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 23, 2009, 04:27:26 PM
Right...you exposed yourself with your Jackson/Sharpton comment.
that is just the way it is........it was/is not a racial comment....it is a fact.......THESE guys are the ones who will turn this into a circus....I have witnessed them respond to situations like this for years now....I simply made a prediction.....and I am certain it will surface very soon.
Much in the same way that I have witnessed you respond to virtually any discussion on race exactly the same way I would expect the other bigots to.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 23, 2009, 04:42:02 PM
Much in the same way that I have witnessed you respond to virtually any discussion on race exactly the same way I would expect the other bigots to.
you are an ASS....period. and YOU have responded to virtually all discussions on ALL issues exactly the same way that I expect......as an ASS....seriously, you obviously do not know what a bigot is.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 23, 2009, 04:54:15 PM
you are an ASS....period. and YOU have responded to virtually all discussions on ALL issues exactly the same way that I expect......as an ASS....seriously, you obviously do not know what a bigot is.
Such a typical Andersonian... :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 24, 2009, 07:30:11 AM
Such a typical Andersonian... :rolleyes:
great comeback......I bet you spent hours dreaming up that one.... :razz:
Obama SUCKS! he made a stupid comment......HE should apologize....he was VERY un presidential....and shows his true colors and inexperience.....he sucks and sucks BAD!! :rant:
Did it ever occur to you that he was being human. Imagine how difficult it is to be "presidential" and "politically correct" 24 hours a day. Sometimes.....whether we mean for it to happen or not, we say the first thing that comes to our minds. How stupid was the press to even ask the question in the first place? As if the arrest in Cambridge was going to affect the President and policies in some way. Pfft. NOW it may affect things, the press never knows when to leave well enough alone and are always asking irrelevant questions.
Quote from: pariann on July 24, 2009, 09:37:21 PM
Did it ever occur to you that he was being human. Imagine how difficult it is to be "presidential" and "politically correct" 24 hours a day. Sometimes.....whether we mean for it to happen or not, we say the first thing that comes to our minds. How stupid was the press to even ask the question in the first place? As if the arrest in Cambridge was going to affect the President and policies in some way. Pfft. NOW it may affect things, the press never knows when to leave well enough alone and are always asking irrelevant questions.
pari I agree with you......and hopefully he will learn a valuable lesson here and learn that IF he don't have the facts on something.....then HE should not speak....he IS the POTUS....not just a senator...IF he would simply go on TV and say...."I screwed up...and spoke out of turn.....I apologize to not only to the police dept, but to ALL Americans"
THAT would go a long ways into restoring his character ... which is something he needs to watch, because his pop rating is dropping.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 24, 2009, 09:41:58 PM
...and hopefully he will learn a valuable lesson here...
I know that it's difficult for a middle-aged white guy like yourself to believe but black people are treated differently by law enforcement than white people. Obama's comment was dead on. Now, rather than continuing to be the moronic doofus that you are and suggesting that the president, a man with far more intelligence, experience and education than you have, learn a valuable lesson, how about you go here (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106990080), click on "listen now" and learn something yourself.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 25, 2009, 03:50:02 PM
I know that it's difficult for a middle-aged white guy like yourself to believe but black people are treated differently by law enforcement than white people. Obama's comment was dead on. Now, rather than continuing to be the moronic doofus that you are and suggesting that the president, a man with far more intelligence, experience and education than you have, learn a valuable lesson, how about you go here (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106990080), click on "listen now" and learn something yourself.
BIGOT!!...yes ex, YOU are a BIGOT.....Just because "I" am a middle-aged white guy, does NOT mean I am not aware of 'some' blacks have been racially profiled...but Obama's comment was far from dead on....as a mater of fact he was so far off base, he has made a fool of himself. THIS particular incident WAS not a racial thing until, OBAMA shot his mouth off....the mater was dropped by the police dept until Obama ran his mouth off WITHOUT the facts....maybe this dipwad has more education than I do, has more experience in being a political hack, but he is NOT a 'wise' person....and he PROVED that.....personally, I find this whole thing somewhat refreshing....that he is showing his TRUE-COLORS...and exposing the fact that HE is a raciest BIGOT, like yourself.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 27, 2009, 08:11:38 AM
BIGOT!!...yes ex, YOU are a BIGOT.....Just because "I" am a middle-aged white guy, does NOT mean I am not aware of 'some' blacks have been racially profiled...but Obama's comment was far from dead on....as a mater of fact he was so far off base, he has made a fool of himself. THIS particular incident WAS not a racial thing until, OBAMA shot his mouth off....the mater was dropped by the police dept until Obama ran his mouth off WITHOUT the facts....maybe this dipwad has more education than I do, has more experience in being a political hack, but he is NOT a 'wise' person....and he PROVED that.....personally, I find this whole thing somewhat refreshing....that he is showing his TRUE-COLORS...and exposing the fact that HE is a raciest BIGOT, like yourself.
Whatever, Henry. Acknowledging my experiences while working in law enforcement does not make me a bigot any more than living as a black man makes the president one. What, exactly, in your experience gives you any insight? It's obvious that you couldn't be bothered to go to the link I provided and actually learn something...you've proven yet again that your preference is to remain a moronic doofus. As far as the rest of your tripe, if people like you don't like Obama, it makes me like him that much more...you wouldn't know wise if it bit you in the ass and you're too illiterate to even spell 'racist' let alone understand it.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 27, 2009, 08:58:40 AM
Whatever, Henry. Acknowledging my experiences while working in law enforcement does not make me a bigot any more than living as a black man makes the president one. What, exactly, in your experience gives you any insight? It's obvious that you couldn't be bothered to go to the link I provided and actually learn something...you've proven yet again that your preference is to remain a moronic doofus. As far as the rest of your tripe, if people like you don't like Obama, it makes me like him that much more...you wouldn't know wise if it bit you in the ass and you're too illiterate to even spell 'racist' let alone understand it.
say whatever you need to make yourself feel better.....Obama proved what kind of person he is.........if he had ANY sort of decency, he would admit that he said something that he should not have, and that he should NOT be comment on something WITHOUT the FACTS, he IS the President....he had NOTHING to accomplish other than prove he is a racist PIG....IT IS HE that is a moronic doofus...
and I am laughing my Freaking ASS off.....because people like me are growing in numbers....his pop rating is dropping like a stack of bricks... ;D
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 27, 2009, 09:14:15 AM
and I am laughing my Freaking ASS off.....because people like me are growing in numbers....
Of course you are...illiterate rednecks breed like cockroaches.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 27, 2009, 09:16:41 AM
Of course you are...illiterate rednecks breed like cockroaches.
if you only KNEW what you was talking about, you MIGHT be interesting to listen too....but you prove yourself everytime you post....what kind of person you are.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 27, 2009, 09:19:20 AM
if you only KNEW what you was talking about, you MIGHT be interesting to listen too....but you prove yourself everytime you post....what kind of person you are.
So do you.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 27, 2009, 10:06:59 AM
So do you.
THERE!...now that we got THAT established...........How is your garden doing?
Who are you? Sybil?
Quote from: pariann on July 27, 2009, 11:05:36 AM
Who are you? Sybil?
which one of me are you talking too? :confused:
At least I didn't have to explain that one. I might have to stick with the posters that know me. LOL
Check this out, Henry! (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/30/gates.police.apology/index.html) This cop called professor Gates a banana-eating jungle monkey but like you, he says he's not a racist either. :razz:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Check this out, Henry! (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/30/gates.police.apology/index.html) This cop called professor Gates a banana-eating jungle monkey but like you, he says he's not a racist either. :razz:
I have NO problem with people who call things as they see them.....this guy said some stupid things, JUST like Obama did.....now, although he may sound like a racist, I don't know his heart...is Obama a racist?.....he assumed that race was in play on this Gates deal, but the officer has pretty much proved he acted within his rights.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2009, 09:55:31 AM
I have NO problem with people who call things as they see them.....this guy said some stupid things, JUST like Obama did.....now, although he may sound like a racist, I don't know his heart...is Obama a racist?.....he assumed that race was in play on this Gates deal, but the officer has pretty much proved he acted within his rights.
No, he didn't...which part of 'you can't arrest someone for disorderly conduct on his own property' are you
still unable to understand?
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2009, 10:05:48 AM
No, he didn't...which part of 'you can't arrest someone for disorderly conduct on his own property' are you still unable to understand?
According to the The union, the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association...."
His actions at the scene of this matter were consistent with his training, with the informed policies and practices of the department, and with applicable legal standards," but I am SURE you are WAY more qualified and Know more about what is right and wrong for an officer to do though... :rolleyes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2009, 10:27:07 AM
According to the The union, the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association...."His actions at the scene of this matter were consistent with his training, with the informed policies and practices of the department, and with applicable legal standards,"
but I am SURE you are WAY more qualified and Know more about what is right and wrong for an officer to do though... :rolleyes:
Did you ever pull your head out of your butt long enough to go listen to the interview with two law enforcement professionals I provided a link for? They each have over 30 years of experience and they don't agree either.
you are still missing the point of this WHOLE thread..........Obama had NO reason to even comment on this, especially without the FACTS.....but you are so blindly biased, you cannot admit that he made a mistake, and BLEW this whole issue out of hand.
Do you two like blue faces?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2009, 10:34:17 AM
you are still missing the point of this WHOLE thread..........Obama had NO reason to even comment on this, especially without the FACTS.....but you are so blindly biased, you cannot admit that he made a mistake, and BLEW this whole issue out of hand.
If the president has no business commenting on this, you have even less.
Quote from: pariann on July 31, 2009, 10:37:56 AM
Do you two like blue faces?
I don't know; how's your foot? :biggrin:
It's sore.....just like you said it would be. :wink:
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2009, 10:42:34 AM
If the president has no business commenting on this, you have even less.
whatever skippy... :rolleyes: I don't represent the WHOLE freakin United States, Obama was the one who acted 'STUPIDLY'....either you are too hardheaded to admit your wrong, or seriously naive.....but for sure, you are one of the two... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2009, 10:50:48 AM
whatever skippy... :rolleyes: I don't represent the WHOLE freakin United States, Obama was the one who acted 'STUPIDLY'....either you are too hardheaded to admit your wrong, or seriously naive.....but for sure, you are one of the two... :yes:
LMFAO! That's hysterical coming from you!
As the first African American POTUS, (even if he is biracial), I would think that at some level it is incumbent upon him (Obama) to make strides toward further improvement to racial relations in this country, and what better way to accomplish this than by interjecting himself into the situation in question within a mediator role?
If he can successfully elicit progression toward common ground in this situation, then I would not be surprised to hear him ask each one of us to do the same with our own neighbors and within our community. You cannot get over something you are not willing to talk through, as has clearly been demonstrated via the decades long festering of the racial divide in this country.
Is it uncomfortable? Hell yes it is! How many of you would be willing to sit at the table with one of your neighbors and talk about racial differences, cultural differences, and be able to do so in a way that would be constructive and at the same time maintain emotional control? I bet the very thought of it brings sweat to your palms doesn't it?
Henry, you state that he spoke before he had any knowledge surrounding the incident, but did he? How do you know? He is after all the POTUS and if he has the ability to know what is happening half way around the world, he certainly has the ability to get the scoop on what is happening in this country, no?
He raised the hackles of the law enforcement community pretty much nation wide and immediately with his comment that the officers in this case reacted stupidly. THAT is indicative only of the status of brotherhood that exists within the profession itself; for how could an officer in LA (You pick the community) know more than the POTUS on the subject within hours of it happening and halfway across the nation? That line of thinking cuts both ways.
I believe he is doing the responsible thing in attempting to mediate a solution to the whole fiasco, and I believe that to a degree both parties shoulder a portion of the blame here. Let's see if the POTUS can get them to man up, accept their responsibility, and move forward.
Certainly progress within this cauldron of emotion is not going to be achieved overnight, but change is sometimes best initiated with baby steps. . .
(I'd love to have Don Carter weigh in here as well!)
AFTER THOUGHT: Some of the harshest crticizm I have heard of past presidents has surrounded the lack of effort toward addressing the needs of this nation and its peoples. How long are the peoples of this country willing to live with the racial divide that continues to fester and divide this country?
Palehorse, Obama himself admitted to speaking "without the facts"...that alone was enough. THEN, to say they acted "Stupidly".....without FIRST getting the facts.
This is my whole point to this thread, that seems to be ignored. I have seen people try to make excuses for him, time after time. This is clear cut, and he was wrong. Now, he may have defused this a 'tad' by getting together to discuss the issue with ALL parties involved. But to me, that was simply trying to save face. His popularity rating is taking some serious hits.
btw, Don has spoke quite a bit about this in his Area.
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2009, 11:00:23 AM
LMFAO! That's hysterical coming from you!
laugh all you want....it is true. (and YOU know it is)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2009, 11:44:22 AM
laugh all you want....it is true. (and YOU know it is)
Just like the bible and all that crap about the invisible man living in the sky is true?
The way I see it the media should have never gotten involved in this period. They have made something that is a local issue nation wide and are stirring up things that need not be stirred up by speculating on the situation over and over.
Quote from: me on July 31, 2009, 02:15:15 PM
The way I see it the media should have never gotten involved in this period. They have made something that is a local issue nation wide and are stirring up things that need not be stirred up by speculating on the situation over and over.
God forbid we confront racism head-on!
Quote from: Exterminator on July 31, 2009, 02:21:34 PM
God forbid we confront racism head-on!
The officer was not being racist. It was an unfortunate incident that has been blown out of proportion by the media pure and simple. This has stirred up things that need not and should not have been stirred up just to have a story and for sensationalism. There was no true racism here so why try to make it appear as though there were?
Quote from: me on July 31, 2009, 02:53:45 PM
The officer was not being racist. It was an unfortunate incident that has been blown out of proportion by the media pure and simple. This has stirred up things that need not and should not have been stirred up just to have a story and for sensationalism. There was no true racism here so why try to make it appear as though there were?
There WAS racism here...but it was Gates and Obama, who was the one's being racist....The officer, was within his boundaries and acted the way he was trained too.....Gates made it racial....then Obama made it racial...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on July 31, 2009, 02:57:59 PM
There WAS racism here...but it was Gates and Obama, who was the one's being racist....The officer, was within his boundaries and acted the way he was trained too.....Gates made it racial....then Obama made it racial...
I meant by the officer I just didn't state that. Sorry.