There was a Pied piper who said, "We live in the greatest country in the world. Help me change it!"
*And the people said, "Change is good!"
Then he said, "We are going to tax the rich fat-cats,".
*And the people said "Sock it to them!"
"and redistribute their wealth."
*And the people said, "Show me the money!"
And then he said, "Redistribution of wealth is good for everybody"
*And Joe the plumber said, are you kidding me?"
And Joe's personal records were hacked and publicized.
*And one lone reporter asked, "Isn't that Marxist policy?"
And she was banished from the kingdom!
Then someone asked, "With no foreign relations experience, how will you deal with radical terrorists?"
And the Pied Piper said, "Simple.. I'll sit down and talk with them and show them how nice we really are and they'll forget that they ever wanted to kill us all!"
Then the Pied Piper said, "I'll give 95% of you lower taxes."
*And one, lone voice said, "But 40% of us don't pay ANY taxes."
So the Pied Piper said, "Then I'll give you some of the taxes the fat-cats pay!"
*And the people said, "Show me the money!"
Then the Pied Piper said, "I'll tax your Capital Gains when you sell your homes!"
*And the people yawned and the slumping housing market collapsed.
And he said, "I'll mandate employer- funded health care for EVERY worker and raise the minimum wage."
*And the people said, "Gim'me some of that!"
Then he said, "I'll penalize employers who ship jobs overseas."
*And the people said, "Where's my rebate check?"
Then the Pied Piper actually said, "I'll bankrupt the coal industry and electricity rates will skyrocket!"
*And the people said, "Coal is dirty, coal is evil, no more coal!
But we don't care for that part about higher electric rates."
So the Pied Piper said, "Not to worry. If your rebate isn't enough to cover your expenses, we'll bail you out. Just sign up with ACORN and your troubles are over!" Then he said, "Illegal immigrants feel scorned and slighted. Let's grant them amnesty, Social Security, free education, free lunches, free medical care, bi-lingual signs and guaranteed housing."
*And the people said, "Ole`! Bravo!"
And they made him King!
And so it came to pass that employers, facing spiraling costs and ever-higher taxes, raised their prices and laid off workers. Others simply gave up and went out of business and the economy slowed even further. Then the Pied Piper said, "I am the Messiah and I'm here to save you! We'll just print more money so everyone will have enough!" But our foreign trading partners said, "Wait a minute. Your dollar isn't worth what it was. You'll have to pay more."
*And the people said, "Wait a minute. That's not fair!"
And the world said, "Neither are these other, idiotic programs you've embraced.. You've become a Socialist state and a second-rate power. Now you'll play by our rules!"
*And the people said, "What have we done?"
But it was too late.
If you think this is a fairy tale, open your eyes and ears. It's happening RIGHT NOW!
Did you know the president's name is really an acronym.
One Big Asstounding Mistake America
I'm sure someone has pointed this out before, but it bears repeating.
The President doesn't make policy. Congress makes policy. The president can't make law. Congress makes law. So y'all can stop hiding under the bed. Go holler at your senators and representatives instead.
Quote from: LOsborne on May 13, 2009, 07:16:45 PM
I'm sure someone has pointed this out before, but it bears repeating.
The President doesn't make policy. Congress makes policy. The president can't make law. Congress makes law. So y'all can stop hiding under the bed. Go holler at your senators and representatives instead.
Gee and who has been in charge, the majority, of congress for the last two + years.... :rolleyes: Strange how that works isn't it?
I agree Lo: But it hasn't stopped some from blaming Bush for all ou troubles. Even though we have had a democrat majority the last 2 years. hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Are you two suggesting that the current economic melt-down has only been two years in the making? C'mon! But you're right; it is the legislative branch of our government that is responsible.
Quote from: LOsborne on May 13, 2009, 09:33:36 PM
Are you two suggesting that the current economic melt-down has only been two years in the making? C'mon! But you're right; it is the legislative branch of our government that is responsible.
Of course they are....it's a textbook example of both "denial" and "scapegoatism".
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on May 13, 2009, 11:58:18 PM
Of course they are....it's a textbook example of both "denial" and "scapegoatism".
You shouldn't talk about the dems that way sandy. That is basically what they have done since taking office, blame bush.
Lame :rolleyes:
Either that or you're the poster child for the illiteracy campaign.
It's clear who I was talking about and why shouldn't Bush and Co be held accountable for their part in creating this mess.
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on May 14, 2009, 10:48:09 AM
Lame :rolleyes:
Either that or you're the poster child for the illiteracy campaign.
It's clear who I was talking about and why shouldn't Bush and Co be held accountable for their part in creating this mess.
What part is it about the Dems controling congress for the last 2 1/2 yrs you don't understand?
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 12:04:44 PM
What part is it about the Dems controling congress for the last 2 1/2 yrs you don't understand?
maybe the same thing that keeps you from understanding the crisis was more than 2 years in the making? just a guess...
Quote from: Gryphon on May 14, 2009, 12:12:12 PM
maybe the same thing that keeps you from understanding the crisis was more than 2 years in the making? just a guess...
Yep, it started with Clinton.
Quote from: Gryphon on May 14, 2009, 12:12:12 PM
maybe the same thing that keeps you from understanding the crisis was more than 2 years in the making? just a guess...
You're expecting a simpleton to grasp a complex concept.
(http://keithgrossman.com/typing.gif)
Quote from: Exterminator on May 14, 2009, 12:19:43 PM
You're expecting a simpleton to grasp a complex concept.
(http://keithgrossman.com/typing.gif)
But you can learn Ex honest you can. :)
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 12:22:47 PM
But you can learn Ex honest you can. :)
Of course I can but you can't.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 14, 2009, 12:26:41 PM
Of course I can but you can't.
Now why would I want to dumb down to your level?
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 12:30:20 PM
Now why would I want to dumb down to your level?
LMMFAO! Yeah, go with that!
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 12:14:44 PM
Yep, it started with Clinton.
*sigh* go on, humor us with your reason for thinking this.
Do the words everyone should be able to own a house ring a bell?
Quote from: me on May 14, 2009, 04:51:20 PM
Do the words everyone should be able to own a house ring a bell?
It does. In fact, I believe that concept was one of the capstones of Bush Jr's. 2004 term. (I imagine it's been a feel-good talking point for many many presidents and politicians, though)
But, humor us some more. What policy of Clinton's led to the housing meltdown? And how did that policy lead us to the subprime crisis.
It was during the Clinton administration people were able to start buying houses even though they could not afford them because of relaxed Fanny Mae Freddy Mac rules. That's when the Stated income, (no doc), loans were brought in. It was abused by many and even though, in theory, it was a good thing it was not very well thought out. It was discussed in this thread. http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13501.msg306936#msg306936
I know your right wing pundits want you to think that....but there are a few things wrong with your position right off:
The vast majority of homes being foreclosed on as a result of bad loans were NOT purchased during the Clinton years. They were purchased in the post-9-11 years of low interest rates when demand for mortgages was high.
Further, stated income loans are a far lesser issue than ARMs and interest only. True no doc mortgages have always been available only to peopel with excellent credit. ARMs and interest only packages were tools used to get blemished borrowers into a home. But yes, much of the problem is because lenders made loans to people who they shouldnt have.
But you didnt answer my question...what Clinton year policy is to blame for any of that?
Quote from: Gryphon on May 14, 2009, 06:09:27 PM
But you didnt answer my question...what Clinton year policy is to blame for any of that?
By him repealing the Glass-Steagall Act (http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html) in 1999...
This is an interesting read and explains it very well...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 08:50:05 AM
By him repealing the Glass-Steagall Act (http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html) in 1999...
This is an interesting read and explains it very well...
No, this is right-wing douche-baggery.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 15, 2009, 08:57:07 AM
No, this is right-wing douche-baggery.
Seriously....explain why you think that...if you read the link, it is explained very well......I also, believe that many republicans should be to blame also, because THEY supported it, enough to allow it to happen.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 09:05:03 AM
Seriously....explain why you think that...if you read the link, it is explained very well......I also, believe that many republicans should be to blame also, because THEY supported it, enough to allow it to happen.
Seriously? With a website name of thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com you have to ask why it's right-wing douche-baggery? If this is the type of source on which you base your political leanings, it's no wonder you don't understand jack.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 15, 2009, 09:54:07 AM
Seriously? With a website name of thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com you have to ask why it's right-wing douche-baggery? If this is the type of source on which you base your political leanings, it's no wonder you don't understand jack.
EX, despite the title of the website.....the explanation that was given, clearly shows a good possibility of ONE reason why we have got the mess....it is supported with links and facts.
I don't know if this is the Gospel but it makes a lot of sense....I never seen that site before, I googled for some information and that was first to come up.
It's explanation is worthy to post here.....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 09:59:00 AM
EX, despite the title of the website.....the explanation that was given, clearly shows a good possibility of ONE reason why we have got the mess....it is supported with links and facts.
It is a bullshit explanation with an obvious agenda that uses partial truths for support.
QuoteI don't know if this is the Gospel but it makes a lot of sense....I never seen that site before, I googled for some information and that was first to come up.
It makes a lot of sense to you because it's what you want to believe and you seize on anything that supports your misconceptions.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 15, 2009, 10:23:55 AM
It is a bullshit explanation with an obvious agenda that uses partial truths for support.
It makes a lot of sense to you because it's what you want to believe and you seize on anything that supports your misconceptions.
blah, blah blah..............it clearly seem's to me that YOU want to believe in what YOU want to...not the facts.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 10:27:57 AM
blah, blah blah..............it clearly seem's to me that YOU want to believe in what YOU want to...not the facts.
Here is where we differ...I actually look for the real facts, not some made up shit offered by some unknown buffoon on the internet. If I did the latter, I'd probably agree with you on virtually everything!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 08:50:05 AM
By him repealing the Glass-Steagall Act (http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html) in 1999...
This is an interesting read and explains it very well...
Henry, I want to read more into this, but one thing jumps out at me right away...
The bill that repealed that act was introduced by a REPUBLICAN, and passed (along party lines, natch)by REPUBLICAN controlled houses of congress.
Surely you all dont presume to wash the right of any responsibility?
Quote from: Gryphon on May 15, 2009, 11:20:18 AM
Henry, I want to read more into this, but one thing jumps out at me right away...
The bill that repealed that act was introduced by a REPUBLICAN, and passed (along party lines, natch)by REPUBLICAN controlled houses of congress.
Surely you all dont presume to wash the right of any responsibility?
Nope not at all.... :no: there are many on both sides with blood on their hands....
well we agree there...theres a lot that could have been done, should have been done (and shouldnt have been done)
but hindsite is 20/20, the better question now is how to fix it...and I dont think anybody has a real good answer for that one.
Quote from: Gryphon on May 15, 2009, 11:30:49 AM
well we agree there...theres a lot that could have been done, should have been done (and shouldnt have been done)
but hindsite is 20/20, the better question now is how to fix it...and I dont think anybody has a real good answer for that one.
I think the fundemental difference that I have is I think we have got to get government out of MOST of our business....we are in a situation where Government has got to take a role, but it has to be one where it put's the power back into the free market of the people...being able to fail or suceed is part of what makes this country great...this should be a lessoned learned by ALL the people of this country......to live within our means.....I have paid dearly by my failures, and I am determined to NEVER allow myself or my family to be in that situation again....and urging my congress to accept the same is vitale....honest, hard work and ethics is what American needs right now.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 11:24:32 AM
Nope not at all.... :no: there are many on both sides with blood on their hands....
That's what you
claim every time one of your asinine slurs against dems fails you.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 15, 2009, 12:42:07 PM
That's what you claim every time one of your asinine slurs against dems fails you.
are you doing illecit drugs?.....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 11:46:03 AM
I think the fundemental difference that I have is I think we have got to get government out of MOST of our business....we are in a situation where Government has got to take a role, but it has to be one where it put's the power back into the free market of the people...being able to fail or suceed is part of what makes this country great...
So, first you blame Clinton for the housing meltdown due to the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act (i.e., less government intrusion into the free market) and now you're for less government intrusion? Do you even know what you think?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 15, 2009, 12:46:44 PM
So, first you blame Clinton for the housing meltdown due to the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act (i.e., less government intrusion into the free market) and now you're for less government intrusion? Do you even know what you think?
First of all, I'm not saying it was only Clinton, ..someone wanted to know How Clinton was involved, and I pointed it out.....we have gotten ourselves into a mess, where there HAS to be some sort of regulation...and some regulation can be a good thing....but what our governement is doing now, is a bad thing....imo..there are too many crooks running things now.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 12:45:05 PM
are you doing illecit drugs?.....
Can you spell 'illicit'?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 01:46:24 PM
First of all, I'm not saying it was only Clinton, ..someone wanted to know How Clinton was involved, and I pointed it out.....we have gotten ourselves into a mess, where there HAS to be some sort of regulation...and some regulation can be a good thing....but what our governement is doing now, is a bad thing....imo..there are too many crooks running things now.
You're avoiding the question...should the government be involved or not?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 15, 2009, 02:34:09 PM
You're avoiding the question...should the government be involved or not?
Should they?.....as little as possible...is the best answer you will get from me. Of course there HAS to be SOME regulations, but can you deny that they HAVE overstepped their boundries?...I'm not talking about dems or repubs...I'm talking about Congress in general.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 15, 2009, 02:53:59 PM
Should they?.....as little as possible...is the best answer you will get from me.
Then the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act must be a good thing by definition?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 15, 2009, 03:24:29 PM
Then the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act must be a good thing by definition?
Well by definition, you would be correct....but things are so screwed up, too much damage had already been done, simply repealing it at that point in time, without proper oversite...with 20/20 hindsite...was a bad thing.
You're missing the larger point...you can't have it both ways and in the complete absence of any controls, the free market is nothing but a free-for-all where those in control are free to fuck everyone else at will.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 15, 2009, 03:45:48 PM
You're missing the larger point...you can't have it both ways and in the complete absence of any controls, the free market is nothing but a free-for-all where those in control are free to fuck everyone else at will.
That is not true....and never said that either.......there should always be a LIMITIED role, and laws put into place for checks and balances...but government seems to have taken on an unlimited role and there are no checks to balance anymore....