The congressional Democrats' cap-and-trade plan (http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=47472) to tax carbon emissions could cost every American family as much as $3,100 a year.....so much for those wonderful tax cuts he is supposed to give us hard working Americans...
click on the link done by Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) study about half way down in the article...and it shows the study done by them, that estimates the cost to the average American....
I'll bet your partisan douch-baggery works pretty well on people who are too ignorant to realize that the cap and trade system has been in use since emmissions trading was introduced in the Clean Air Act ammendments introduced in 1990 during George H.W. Bush's tenure. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 01:27:12 PM
I'll bet your partisan douch-baggery works pretty well on people who are too ignorant to realize that the cap and trade system has been in use since emmissions trading was introduced in the Clean Air Act ammendments introduced in 1990 during George H.W. Bush's tenure. :rolleyes:
that is all good and fine, but the point to m story IS...the NEW proposed Cap and Trade is going to cost us around $3100 per year per family.....and it is just another way for congress to get MORE of our money and use it for WHATEVER they want.....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 01:34:00 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 01:27:12 PM
I'll bet your partisan douch-baggery works pretty well on people who are too ignorant to realize that the cap and trade system has been in use since emmissions trading was introduced in the Clean Air Act ammendments introduced in 1990 during George H.W. Bush's tenure. :rolleyes:
that is all good and fine, but the point to m story IS...the NEW proposed Cap and Trade is going to cost us around $3100 per year per family.....and it is just another way for congress to get MORE of our money and use it for WHATEVER they want.....
I am going to assume that you simply haven't researched the subject very well and that you aren't intentionally propagating Pence and Boehner's partisan lies. To that end, I think it's important that you read the response sent to Boehner by one of the study's authors: http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/republican.pdf
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 02:40:54 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 01:34:00 PM
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 01:27:12 PM
I'll bet your partisan douch-baggery works pretty well on people who are too ignorant to realize that the cap and trade system has been in use since emmissions trading was introduced in the Clean Air Act ammendments introduced in 1990 during George H.W. Bush's tenure. :rolleyes:
that is all good and fine, but the point to m story IS...the NEW proposed Cap and Trade is going to cost us around $3100 per year per family.....and it is just another way for congress to get MORE of our money and use it for WHATEVER they want.....
I am going to assume that you simply haven't researched the subject very well and that you aren't intentionally propagating Pence and Boehner's partisan lies. To that end, I think it's important that you read the response sent to Boehner by one of the study's authors: http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/republican.pdf
and you are assuming that Henry Waxman and friends are telling the truth?.....the $3100 estimate is done by a MIT study.....and they range from the hight $2000 to $5000...
Did you go to the MIT link that was attached where they explained the costs?....another thing...when was the last time our government said something would cost X amount and did not end up about 10 times that?...
the bottom line is....we will soon see....I think cap and trade is a bad policy.....and I need to be assured that IF I pay $300 or $3000 a year...that it is going to be used effectively....
btw....I DID read your link...and I am only beginning to learn about this cap and trade...I'm not too impressed so far.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 02:57:09 PM
and you are assuming that Henry Waxman and friends are telling the truth?...
I don't know but I do know that Boehner and Co. are absolutely lying and I'm giving you an opportunity to avoid being called a liar yourself...again.
Quote..the $3100 estimate is done by a MIT study.....and they range from the hight $2000 to $5000...
Did you read the study or it's summary by one of the authors that I provided the link for? That is
not what is says at all.
QuoteDid you go to the MIT link that was attached where they explained the costs?...
Did you?
Quote...another thing...when was the last time our government said something would cost X amount and did not end up about 10 times that?...
I know that we had this same hysteria in the early 90's and while I was doing some consulting for Navistar, they actually had excess credits because of the emissions improvements they made in their turbo diesel engines which didn't make the engines any more expensive but did make them more efficient.
Quote...the bottom line is....we will soon see....I think cap and trade is a bad policy.....and I need to be assured that IF I pay $300 or $3000 a year...that it is going to be used effectively....
The bottom line is that I don't think you understand all of the issues and are just using this as another thing to bitch about. The people at MIT clearly think this is a good idea.
Quote...btw....I DID read your link...and I am only beginning to learn about this cap and trade...I'm not too impressed so far.
You read my link and you still don't believe that Boehner and his group are lying through their teeth? They were actually warned by the authors of the MIT study that their numbers were wrong
before they made their press release and they made it anyway!
I just sent Mike Pence an email, to explain what is going on. To shoot me a straight answer. Is it or is it not going to cost us $3000 per year.
He has always replied back to me...and I will share with you IF and WHEN he responds.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 03:22:53 PM
I just sent Mike Pence an email, to explain what is going on. To shoot me a straight answer. Is it or is it not going to cost us $3000 per year.
He has always replied back to me...and I will share with you IF and WHEN he responds.
I'm betting he responds with his party's line which is pure BS. After the letter from one of the authors of the MIT study came out, Boner had the audacity to say that the guy didn't understand the numbers in his own study! How the hell can you quote a study and then turn around and claim that it's authors don't understand the conclusions it comes to?
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 04:02:38 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 03:22:53 PM
I just sent Mike Pence an email, to explain what is going on. To shoot me a straight answer. Is it or is it not going to cost us $3000 per year.
He has always replied back to me...and I will share with you IF and WHEN he responds.
I'm betting he responds with his party's line which is pure BS. After the letter from one of the authors of the MIT study came out, Boner had the audacity to say that the guy didn't understand the numbers in his own study! How the hell can you quote a study and then turn around and claim that it's authors don't understand the conclusions it comes to?
You maybe right, but I have received three or four emails from him that was personally directed to my questions...he is usually fairly quick to respond also.
I have not always been impressed with Boehner....but, Pence has stood pretty solid on conservative issues.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 04:12:12 PM
I have not always been impressed with Boehner....but, Pence has stood pretty solid on conservative issues.
Too bad he wasn't more conservative about painting his name on the side of that building downtown...pretty ghetto.
Quote from: Exterminator on May 01, 2009, 04:46:02 PM
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 04:12:12 PM
I have not always been impressed with Boehner....but, Pence has stood pretty solid on conservative issues.
Too bad he wasn't more conservative about painting his name on the side of that building downtown...pretty ghetto.
I have NOT seen it....but I have not been downtown for quite a while now....it is pretty sad down there....if it is ghetto..that he did, there is probably a reason for that.... :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on May 01, 2009, 04:51:37 PM
I have NOT seen it....but I have not been downtown for quite a while now....it is pretty sad down there....if it is ghetto..that he did, there is probably a reason for that.... :razz:
I hadn't been through town for years but until a couple of weeks ago and it's ugly...does fit right in with the arch, though. :biggrin:
On the plus side, it was nice to see that they've been tearing down some of the abandoned factories. Would be even nicer if they'd put down some top soil and grass seed...
I miss Guide.
I miss my job. :(
cap-and-trade = cap-and-tax. A truly wonderful incentive for business to build new factories in the USA. Electric generation (lot of coal) is going to get hammered, so $3000 per family sounds about right to me.
Quote from: Ma and Pa on May 01, 2009, 07:44:06 PM
I miss my job. :(
You worked there? I just miss the landmark. My parental side of the family worked there from the 40's into the 90's. It was definitely one of the staples in my life.
Quote from: DannyBoy on May 01, 2009, 11:04:04 PM
cap-and-trade = cap-and-tax.
If you'd learn to think for yourself, you wouldn't have to parrot Rush Limbaugh.
QuoteA truly wonderful incentive for business to build new factories in the USA.
As cute as your trying to pretend you know anything about business is, you might have already noticed that a lot of manufacturing started leaving the US a long time ago and it had nothing to do with cap-and-trade.
QuoteElectric generation (lot of coal) is going to get hammered, so $3000 per family sounds about right to me.
And that's precisely why no one is asking you, because you are clueless.
Pari: 37 years at Delco...Delphi. Pretty much the same gig.
And, there have been MANY stories about how the electric bills are going through the roof, unless you have $70,000 for solar panels. My friend looked into them out here in Calif. and even with about 75 percent covered by fed and state grants, he will have to kick in $17,000 and his house isn't all that big. While we cap and trade in this country, losing business right and left because of it, China and India will continue to expand without regard to how it will affect anything. Also, all the cap and trade in the world will make a miniscule percent of 1% difference in the air we breathe. Gad.
Let's see...should I listen to the people who published a study citing their sources and providing their calculations or should I believe the people who just pull figures out of their asses? Such a tough choice! :rolleyes:
Did someone mention electric bills? Can I mention this here? They are going high here too. But then again, they seem to fluctuate. So far, I've gotten two bills. My first bill after i got my utilities turned back on....$456. The bill I just paid yesterday.....$35. Something is definitely amiss here.
What's it got to do with cap and trade? I don't know. I'm not understanding cap and trade yet. LOL
Quote from: pariann on May 05, 2009, 08:59:01 AM
Did someone mention electric bills? Can I mention this here? They are going high here too. But then again, they seem to fluctuate. So far, I've gotten two bills. My first bill after i got my utilities turned back on....$456. The bill I just paid yesterday.....$35. Something is definitely amiss here.
You're not alone...I think it's pretty well established that Madison County is having some issues with their utility billings.
My luck...my next bill with be about $800. My inheritance will be blown on the City of Anderson and their utility charges.
Warren Buffet says....."cap and trade" as a method to control pollution,...would be a huge, regressive tax.
So?