Praise Jeebus!! :biggrin:
(CNN) -- America is a less Christian nation than it was 20 years ago, and Christianity is not losing out to other religions, but primarily to a rejection of religion altogether, a survey published Monday found.
Survey finds percentage of of Americans identifying themselves as Christian has fallen over two decades.
Three out of four Americans call themselves Christian, according to the American Religious Identification Survey from Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut. In 1990, the figure was closer to nine out of 10 -- 86 percent.
At the same time there has been an increase in the number of people expressing no religious affiliation.
The survey also found that "born-again" or "evangelical" Christianity is on the rise, while the percentage who belong to "mainline" congregations such as the Episcopal or Lutheran churches has fallen.
One in three Americans consider themselves evangelical, and the number of people associated with mega-churches has skyrocketed from less than 200,000 in 1990 to more than 8 million in the latest survey.
The rise in evangelical Christianity is contributing to the rejection of religion altogether by some Americans, said Mark Silk of Trinity College.
"In the 1990s, it really sunk in on the American public generally that there was a long-lasting 'religious right' connected to a political party, and that turned a lot of people the other way," he said of the link between the Republican Party and groups such as the Moral Majority and Focus on the Family. Watch author on mixing religion and politics »
"In an earlier time, people who would have been content to say, 'Well, I'm some kind of a Protestant,' now say 'Hell no, I won't go,'" he told CNN.
Silk also said the revelation that some Catholic priests had sexually abused children -- and senior figures in the church hierarchy had helped to hide it -- had driven some Catholics away from religion.
And, he said, it is now more socially acceptable than it once was to admit having no religion.
"You're not declaring yourself a total pariah. The culture has changed in a way that makes it easier to say, 'No, I don't have a religion. Even in the past year, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama feel obliged to talk about 'those of no faith,'" he pointed out. Obama mentioned people without faith in his inaugural address in January, making him the first president to do so.
In the survey, one in five Americans said they have no religious identity or did not answer the question, and more than one in four said they do not expect to have a religious funeral.
The rise in what the survey authors call "nones" is the only trend reflected in every single state in the study, Silk said.
"We don't see anything else in the survey that is nationwide," he told CNN.
Other findings include:
• The percentage of Catholics in the United States has remained steady at about one in four since 1990, while the percentage of other Christians has plummeted from 60 percent to 50 percent.
• The percentage of Muslims has doubled since 1990, but remains statistically very small, only 0.3 percent in the original survey and 0.6 percent today.
• Mormons have remained steady as a percentage of the population, even as the number of people in the United States has grown. They make up 1.4 percent of the population.
• The number of Jews in the United States is falling if the category includes only those who define themselves as Jews religiously, but has remained the same if the category includes people who consider themselves ethnically Jewish.
The survey polled 54,461 Americans between February and November of last year. Pollsters conducted the research in both English and Spanish.
The survey is the third in a series, following polls in 1990 and 2001.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/03/09/us.religion.less.christian/index.html
duh!!!...why do you think we are heading down the drain as a Nation?.............. :yes: ;) :razz:
It goes without saying that I disagree that we're going down the drain. :razz: ;D
Just look at today's stem cell policy reversal for one small example of something going right for a change. :yes:
Quote from: Locutus on March 09, 2009, 04:08:27 PM
Just look at today's stem cell policy reversal for one small example of something going right for a change. :yes:
well, time will tell us the truth on that one.....so far, I'm having a difficult time dealing with the hope and change...but time will tell on that too... ;) :)
You would think with all the chicken little's out there claiming that the sky is falling, that people would be lined up to be saved all over the place!
Guess not! :biggrin:
Quote from: kimmi on March 09, 2009, 04:37:05 PM
You would think with all the chicken little's out there claiming that the sky is falling, that people would be lined up to be saved all over the place!
Guess not! :biggrin:
well, now that we have the messiah for president....heck, who needs to go to church?.... :preach:
hey, did you mention chickens?... :eat:.. :razz:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 09, 2009, 03:58:28 PM
duh!!!...why do you think we are heading down the drain as a Nation?..............
Because we let anyone breed.
America becoming less Christian
Perhaps it is because we are on the cusp of a new age of enlightenment? :smile:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 08:08:33 AM
America becoming less Christian
Perhaps it is because we are on the cusp of a new age of enlightenment? :smile:
do you really believe that?...
speech by Mke Pence, that he recently delivered to a large national gathering....
We must recognize that our present crisis is not merely economic and political but moral in nature. At the root of these times is the realization that we are struggling because so many in authority have walked away from the timeless truths of integrity, personal responsibility, an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, and the notion that we should live and work in a way that treats others as we would want to be treated. [Matthew 7:12]
The Old Book says, "If the foundations crumble, how can the righteous stand?" [Psalm 11:3] If the foundations of integrity and personal responsibility crumble, indeed how can a free society endure? The truth is, we must get back to basics.
Recently, U. S. News & World Report called to say they had heard a rumor that I open my staff meetings at the House Republican Conference in prayer. (Only in Washington DC is being caught in private prayer a newsworthy event!) We told them, "Yes, the Congressman does open meetings in prayer; we pray for the President, for colleagues in both parties – and sometimes we even pray for the press!" The truth is that in times like these it is good to "remember what your knees are for."
Our Founders believed in prayer – as did one of our greatest presidents: an Indiana farm boy named Abe Lincoln.
At the height of a civil war and on the eve of a bloody battle on a field in Gettysburg , President Lincoln fell to his knees and prayed. Lincoln later recalled to a Union general, "I don't know how it was, and I cannot explain it, but soon a sweet comfort crept into my soul. The feeling came that God had taken the whole business into His hands and that things would go right."
Like millions of Americans, I've been spending some time on my knees lately and I've got the same feeling that, in the midst of these dark days, by His grace, things will go right again.
I close where this address began – standing, as I did just a few short weeks ago, on the barricades of Fort McHenry, in Baltimore harbor.
Facing overwhelming opposition, and what must have seemed like the inevitable advance of defeat, a small band of regulars withstood 25 hours of bombardment at the hands of the British fleet. And when the sun rose and smoke cleared, because of their courage and determination, our flag was still there. A poem was written, an anthem inspired, and a nation reborn to freedom and independence.
Inspired by their example, let us conservatives resolve this day that we, like they, will stand and fight; we will not yield. And with determination and courage and faith, we, like those Americans so many years ago, will hold the banner of freedom high and the good and great people of this land will rally to our cause. So help us God."
Mike Pence
I think THAT says alot about our nation at this time.....
Yes, some of our founders may have believed in prayer, but they knew it was best kept out of our government. Mike Pence needs to follow their lead.
It was good news to see religion dwindle. There may be hope for mankind yet as more unburden themselves from superstition, and start dealing with reality.
:thumbsup: :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 08:10:15 AM
do you really believe that?...
I do! While it may not be a singular reason for the decline, I do suspect it to be a major contributor.
I believe that we are one catastrophe away from becoming a MORE Christian, America...
Look back at 9/11........there was Christians crawling out of the wood work......
Quote from: Mr442 on March 10, 2009, 09:50:47 AM
Yes, some of our founders may have believed in prayer, but they knew it was best kept out of our government. Mike Pence needs to follow their lead.
It was good news to see religion dwindle. There may be hope for mankind yet as more unburden themselves from superstition, and start dealing with reality.
what exactly is he (Mike Pence) forcing into government?.... :confused:
He simply gave a speech, with his regards to prayer.....
George Washington himself said.........."It is impossible to govern rightly without God and the Bible"
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 10:33:20 AM
what exactly is he (Mike Pence) forcing into government?.... :confused:
He simply gave a speech, with his regards to prayer.....
A really funny speech, too! I love the irony of seeing weenies who never saw fit to serve their countries themselves use the symbolism of war to make a point.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 10, 2009, 10:51:09 AM
A really funny speech, too! I love the irony of seeing weenies who never saw fit to serve their countries themselves use the symbolism of war to make a point.
so, is Obama one of THOSE weenies?....
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 11:04:28 AM
so, is Obama one of THOSE weenies?....
Is he using the symbolism of war to make a point?
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 10:27:07 AM
I believe that we are one catastrophe away from becoming a MORE Christian, America...
Look back at 9/11........there was Christians crawling out of the wood work......
Religion is not the only entity that requires faith. Science does as well; it is just that a lot of scientists have not figured that out yet! :wink: :smile:
I watched a broadcast about this last night and there was one thing that stood out that really bothered me. MEGACHURCHES! Have you ever been in one of these? I have. They have teller lines so you can pay your offering complete with ATM machines and credit card machines. Maybe this is the reason people are staying clear of the organized religion. If the church starts to feel like the country club and everyone is one upping each other, I want nothing to do with it!
Quote from: Exterminator on March 10, 2009, 10:51:09 AM
A really funny speech, too! I love the irony of seeing weenies who never saw fit to serve their countries themselves use the symbolism of war to make a point.
He is using a fact from history to make his point........it has NOTHING to do with his ability to serve our country during battle or not....quit being dramatic will ya?..again with the ego thing... :rolleyes:
Quote from: kimmi on March 10, 2009, 11:43:28 AM
I watched a broadcast about this last night and there was one thing that stood out that really bothered me. MEGACHURCHES! Have you ever been in one of these? I have. They have teller lines so you can pay your offering complete with ATM machines and credit card machines. Maybe this is the reason people are staying clear of the organized religion. If the church starts to feel like the country club and everyone is one upping each other, I want nothing to do with it!
I agree with you on this Kimmi...1000%.........I have often stated my beliefs about mega churches... :yes:
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 11:48:23 AM
I agree with you on this Kimmi...1000%.........I have often stated my beliefs about mega churches... :yes:
Which leads me to believe, and I'm an example of, people don't need a building to believe in God. I don't need people telling me how much to pay them or how many times I have to come to "be in the club". I find that disturbing. I see nothing wrong with going to a different church each week and I should be welcomed in as a fellow Christian and not as a potential payment. I stay out of churches because as a child and young adult I found myself learning quickly about the hypocrisies that are involved.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 11:47:08 AM
He is using a fact from history to make his point........it has NOTHING to do with his ability to serve our country during battle or not....quit being dramatic will ya?..again with the ego thing... :rolleyes:
Screw you with your ego crap, Pence is a jack-off.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 10, 2009, 12:07:30 PM
Screw you with your ego crap, Pence is a jack-off.
so are you!
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 01:36:21 PM
so are you!
Such wit! Do you have a team of writers working for you or do you come up with these all by yourself? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Exterminator on March 10, 2009, 01:38:44 PM
Such wit! Do you have a team of writers working for you
nope, it is pretty easy when I got such an easy target..
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 01:40:20 PM
nope, it is pretty easy when I got such an easy target..
Keep telling yourself that.
You two having fun yet? :biggrin:
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 01:45:01 PM
You two having fun yet? :biggrin:
I am!!..... :yes:
Ex, despite his downfalls...is one of my favorite people on here...he keeps me on my toes... ;)
and I think we could actually have a good time over a beer or two... ;)
(
Now if it was four of five beers...it could turn ugly.... :razz:)
:biggrin:
Quote from: kimmi on March 10, 2009, 11:55:39 AM
Which leads me to believe, and I'm an example of, people don't need a building to believe in God. I don't need people telling me how much to pay them or how many times I have to come to "be in the club". I find that disturbing. I see nothing wrong with going to a different church each week and I should be welcomed in as a fellow Christian and not as a potential payment. I stay out of churches because as a child and young adult I found myself learning quickly about the hypocrisies that are involved.
Kimmi, again I agree with you.........BUT,....not all Churches are seeking your pocket books......as a mater of fact, a good Christian church would give a rat's butt on how much you give........that is between YOU and God....
For me, I find it very helpful for me to attend a regular Church. I go to a small church, and it has become a "family" like atmosphere. It is much easier to be held accountable for your actions when you have a small group of people who come to know you on a very personal level....I also, find it more helpful to belong to a Bible study....THAT is probably the most helpful and encouraging part of my week...
I used to feel the same way about hypocrites in the Church.....but we are ALL guilty of one sin or another, and for me, I simply try my best to worry about myself and NOT the other guy's problems...and I try my best to focus on worshipping God, and putting HIM first....
at least that is MY 2 cents... :)
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 10:33:20 AM
what exactly is he (Mike Pence) forcing into government?.... :confused:
He simply gave a speech, with his regards to prayer.....
Henry, with all respect, you must be getting numb to all the preaching. Pence's speach sounded like a sermon to me. YMMV!
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 11:21:19 AM
Religion is not the only entity that requires faith. Science does as well; it is just that a lot of scientists have not figured that out yet! :wink: :smile:
They have faith in the tried and true methods used to prove and disprove various theories.
Quote from: Mr442 on March 10, 2009, 03:12:38 PM
Henry, with all respect, you must be getting numb to all the preaching. Pence's speach sounded like a sermon to me. YMMV!
442, with all respect, when was the last "preaching" that you have heard?....to me, all Pence was saying, that....Integrity and responsibilty is becoming LOST in Washington........and, reverting BACK to some basic moral values...that is clearly taugh directly from the Bible....would NOT be a bad thing about this point of time.
btw..what is YMMV :confused:
Quote from: Mr442 on March 10, 2009, 03:16:56 PM
They have faith in the tried and true methods used to prove and disprove various theories.
Indeed. But get them to say it that way sometime. More than likely they will substitute confidence for faith; if you can get them to come near the word at all! :biggrin:
They fail to realize that faith in theories is what brings them to the point of proving or disproving them in the first place. . .Among other things. . .
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 03:21:12 PM
Indeed. But get them to say it that way sometime. More than likely they will substitute confidence for faith; if you can get them to come near the word at all! :biggrin:
They fail to realize that faith in theories is what brings them to the point of proving or disproving them in the first place. . .Among other things. . .
really, your point PH, sounds to me that science is about the same as religion....it comes down to a certain amount of faith....AND, it is about money and greed........becuase...science today is ALL about getting federal dollars to keep their R&D alive!!...
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 03:18:26 PM
442, with all respect, when was the last "preaching" that you have heard?....to me, all Pence was saying, that....Integrity and responsibilty is becoming LOST in Washington........and, reverting BACK to some basic moral values...that is clearly taugh directly from the Bible....would NOT be a bad thing about this point of time.
btw..what is YMMV :confused:
I've been exposed to the church, and I've been to a few funerals lately, I know what preaching sounds like.
YMMV = You Mileage May Vary
I think research and development is vital in science. I am very excited to see what evolves with stem cell research. I think we may find the missing links to all sorts of disease. I know the government spends money on R&D for science, but really it is the drug companies that buck up the most, as they are the ones that will have their name on the serums or vaccines. The government's role is to not stand in the way of science!
I mean I guess they could all sit around and wait for a sign from God, but that would probably take way too long! Cheaper yes, but not as time efficient.
Quote from: Henry Hawk on March 10, 2009, 03:23:56 PM
really, your point PH, sounds to me that science is about the same as religion....it comes down to a certain amount of faith....AND, it is about money and greed........becuase...science today is ALL about getting federal dollars to keep their R&D alive!!...
Watch your beak there my feathered friend. There are similarities in them, yes; but I wouldn't go so far as to call them the same! :biggrin:
Science after all has proof to support it's claims. And but for science the majority of us would have succumbed to the likes of polio or some other treatable malady by now, and all be living in log cabins or caves; riding my namesake to and fro in order to do the things we have to do to survive. :wink:
Quote from: Mr442 on March 10, 2009, 03:30:36 PM
I've been exposed to the church, and I've been to a few funerals lately, I know what preaching sounds like.
YMMV = You Mileage May Vary
All I'm saying is he didn't mention God or Jesus or tell everyone to repent or burn.........he just made a few points, that are shared by MANY, MANY Americans...
I didn't mean that as an insult by the way...
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 03:40:50 PM
Watch your beak there my feathered friend. There are similarities in them, yes; but I wouldn't go so far as to call them the same! :biggrin:
Science after all has proof to support it's claims. And but for science the majority of us would have succumbed to the likes of polio or some other treatable malady by now, and all be living in log cabins or caves; riding my namesake to and fro in order to do the things we have to do to survive. :wink:
Awe, my long nosed friend.... ;) :razz: I'm being about half serious on that.........I give science their due, and I'm grateful that we have them guys doing their jobs...but on the same note, if it had not been for Christianity.....there would have been millions of people starve to death or NOT receive the medical treatment that missionaries have been accountable for........
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 03:40:50 PM
And but for science the majority of us would have succumbed to the likes of polio or some other treatable malady by now, and all be living in log cabins or caves; riding my namesake to and fro in order to do the things we have to do to survive. :wink:
All things that were apparently too much for god.
As Christianity has declined, so has our morals. We live in a society where people are corrupt, immoral, self centered,whats in it for me, I don't want to get involved society. It is wrong to disciplin our children, be held accountable for our actions, follow the law and have respect for just about anything. Is that real enough for you.
Quote from: Palehorse on March 10, 2009, 03:40:50 PM
Watch your beak there my feathered friend. There are similarities in them, yes; but I wouldn't go so far as to call them the same! :biggrin:
Science after all has proof to support it's claims. And but for science the majority of us would have succumbed to the likes of polio or some other treatable malady by now, and all be living in log cabins or caves; riding my namesake to and fro in order to do the things we have to do to survive. :wink:
The return to stem cell research was about 8 years too late for my brother. He died of a disease that was dependent upon stem cell research for a cure. Wonder if Bush ever thinks about that.
That invisible being apparently thinks the brutal suffering my brother went through was appropriate for his life of serving his country in Vietnam and serving humanity afterwards.
Ah Palehorse: Who gave us this curiosity and ability to do these wonderous thing? I have found myself looking back the last 25 years and am amazed by all the wonderful medical miracles discovered. And I know that there are many more in the future. God Bless Them All.
Followsthewolf: My symathy for your lost. I do know how you fell. My husband struggled for a year with cancer and lost. While he was dying we heard of new ways coming up to fight and cure cancer. It just wasn"t in his time. I still root for those that will have use to these cures and thank those that discovered them from the bottom of my heart.
Let me guess -- the invisible being gave us this curiosity so we could discover all these cures for........what?
The diseases the invisible being visited on us in the first place?
Marvelous game of ethereal diddling. "Screw 'em up and then let them suffer as i dole out piddling cures one by one as they die in agony."
Now, THAT is a compassionate invisible being at his/her/its best.
Makes me want to sign up to worship him/her/it right now!
You don't need religion to be moral
Quote from: followsthewolf on March 10, 2009, 04:59:57 PM
The return to stem cell research was about 8 years too late for my brother. He died of a disease that was dependent upon stem cell research for a cure. Wonder if Bush ever thinks about that.
That invisible being apparently thinks the brutal suffering my brother went through was appropriate for his life of serving his country in Vietnam and serving humanity afterwards.
President Bush didn't stop stem cell research as a whole he stopped the embryo stem research. My cousin's husband was given stem cell treatment for cancer, which worked btw, and it was not from an embryo it was from a means which Bush gave funding for. http://www.wsbtv.com/stemcells/6939082/detail.html
http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/pros_cons.html
It was 2yrs ago in Aug that he had the stem cell transplant.
Quote from: followsthewolf on March 10, 2009, 05:14:39 PM
Let me guess -- the invisible being gave us this curiosity so we could discover all these cures for........what?
The diseases the invisible being visited on us in the first place?
Marvelous game of ethereal diddling. "Screw 'em up and then let them suffer as i dole out piddling cures one by one as they die in agony."
Now, THAT is a compassionate invisible being at his/her/its best.
Makes me want to sign up to worship him/her/it right now!
Your post reminded me of this cartoon. His finger is on the smite button. :biggrin:
(http://www.simonvarwell.co.uk/larson.jpg)
Actually, God does not create famine, wars, disease etc. Good old mankind does. You can blame God for all the wrong in the world and forget about his god things, just like you can blame a president for what Congress and other politicians are doing to us. It still doesn't change anything. You are wrong. JMO
Quote from: mcgonser on March 10, 2009, 07:03:07 PM
Actually, God does not create famine, wars, disease etc. Good old mankind does. You can blame God for all the wrong in the world and forget about his god things, just like you can blame a president for what Congress and other politicians are doing to us. It still doesn't change anything. You are wrong. JMO
Gosh. . . here we go again. . . I guess I'm going to have to work a little harder on that project so I can respond to things like this. . .
I guess what I am trying to say is: If mankind took care of each other, did not go to war. fed the humgry, clothed the poor then there would not be so much trouble in the world. Alot of diseases come from dirty water, or no water, lack of decent or enough food and a decent place to live. If we took a hands on position we could cure it ourselves. Instead of giving to orgs and expecting them to do it. It starts with your neighbors and them spreads out. There is enough to go around but we have to get involved and see that it is done right. JMO
Quote from: mcgonser on March 10, 2009, 08:49:47 PM
I guess what I am trying to say is: If mankind took care of each other, did not go to war. fed the humgry, clothed the poor then there would not be so much trouble in the world. Alot of diseases come from dirty water, or no water, lack of decent or enough food and a decent place to live. If we took a hands on position we could cure it ourselves. Instead of giving to orgs and expecting them to do it. It starts with your neighbors and them spreads out. There is enough to go around but we have to get involved and see that it is done right. JMO
And the lion's share of those wars find religion as their root cause. Been that way for a very long time now. This and more amazing thoughts can be found here:
http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13389.msg302878#msg302878 (http://theunknownzone.us/smf/index.php?topic=13389.msg302878#msg302878)
(A little light reading for those interested in some of my thoughts and perspectives. A work in progress but I think it will provide a good snapshot of my position as it is).
Don't mean to get this off track but I do have a curiosity question here. I see all of this talk about God where does the devil come in and which part of these things that get blamed on God and his doing can be blamed on the devil instead? Could it be that things got so screwed up along the line that people are confusing one with the other. I never really read the Bible but I did attend church when I was a kid and remember bits and pieces of things so I can't really speak with any knowledge of the subject but some things raise questions in my mind. To me being a Christian has little to do with God but has to do with treating others right and being true to yourself. As far a organized religion is concerned I don't really believe in that nor do I believe there are different religions only different interpretations of one religion. This part might have already been brought up because I normally don't follow these discussions too closely so I apologize if I'm repeating something. I don't think saying 10 hail Mary's is going to absolve you of any sins if you continue to commit them nor do I think you are going to rot in hell if you dance or watch TV.
I do agree with mcgonser that man is the cause of famine, wars, (some) disease etc due to greed and the need to control.
With that I return you to your regularly scheduled thread topic.
Me that is a good question. I think some people believe in the devil, I personally don't. I think that "little voice" is human instinct and we have choices to make. You either make a good choice or a bad choice. That is just how I see things. Others I'm sure have a different take on it.
Quote from: kimmi on March 10, 2009, 10:28:30 PM
Me that is a good question. I think some people believe in the devil, I personally don't. I think that "little voice" is human instinct and we have choices to make. You either make a good choice or a bad choice. That is just how I see things. Others I'm sure have a different take on it.
That is more or less what I think. God represents good and devil represents evil they are just terms not entities or invisible beings just terms which represent actions so to speak.
Quote from: mcgonser on March 10, 2009, 04:11:11 PM
As Christianity has declined, so has have our morals. We live in a society where people are corrupt, immoral, self centered,whats what's in it for me, I don't want to get involved society. It is wrong to disciplin discipline our children, be held accountable for our actions, follow the law and have respect for just about anything. Is that real enough for you.
There is at least as much corruption, immorality and self-centeredness in religion as there is in society as a whole but religion has a whole lot more hypocrisy.
If humankind wrote the Bible then doesn't that mean humankind created the devil? Probably as a means of explaining the difference between good and evil.
Not really Pale, good point though, the Bible was dictated by God to his scribes through dreams and various means. God had always talked to us thru dreams. How are your dreams??????
Quote from: Exterminator on March 11, 2009, 07:10:32 AM
There is at least as much corruption, immorality and self-centeredness in religion as there is in society as a whole but religion has a whole lot more hypocrisy.
How would you know? Since you aren't active with the Christians and their church, how do you know what ALL is going on?
Are you judging all Christians by a few that have made mistakes. I don't think you get it. Christians are humans too and make mistakes. They fall flat on their faces but the difference is that God picks us up, forgives us and sends us back out to try again. I am thankful it is God who will judge me and not mankind. Mankind is too unforgiving.
Doc? :biggrin:
Quote from: mcgonser on March 11, 2009, 11:13:54 AM
How would you know? Since you aren't active with the Christians and their church, how do you know what ALL is going on?
Because I have been active with them in the past?
QuoteAre you judging all Christians by a few that have made mistakes. I don't think you get it. Christians are humans too and make mistakes. They fall flat on their faces but the difference is that God picks us up, forgives us and sends us back out to try again. I am thankful it is God who will judge me and not mankind. Mankind is too unforgiving.
So who picks up the Jews and the Hindus and the Buddhists, etc. and sends them back out to try again? Who does that for the agnostics and atheists? And why would god need to judge you? He made you...did he screw it up?
Quote from: Sandy Eggo on March 11, 2009, 11:18:38 AM
Doc? :biggrin:
It only seems that way because they are all brainwashed to respond in the same way.
Quote from: mcgonser on March 11, 2009, 10:48:02 AM
Not really Pale, good point though, the Bible was dictated by God to his scribes through dreams and various means. God had always talked to us thru dreams. How are your dreams??????
My dreams and astral travels are just fine, and thanks for asking.
So, if God utilized these scribes to document his / her message, then how is it that centuries later humankind can take it upon themselves to exclude vast portions of these messages???
Does this mean that a porn scene that originates from a dream is divinely inspired? :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Exterminator on March 11, 2009, 11:37:48 AM
Does this mean that a porn scene that originates from a dream is divinely inspired? :icon_twisted:
I was wondering why I'm constantly dreaming about work!! That cannot be divine intervention! :no:
Quote from: Exterminator on March 11, 2009, 11:22:04 AM
Because I have been active with them in the past?
So who picks up the Jews and the Hindus and the Buddhists, etc. and sends them back out to try again? Who does that for the agnostics and atheists? And why would god need to judge you? He made you...did he screw it up?
I can't speak for other religions, you will have to ask them yourself. No God did not screw up, but we do as humans. It is our nature. As for agnostics and atheists I guess they think they do it all themselves, you will have to ask them too. The greatest lie ever perpetrated on mankind is that " The Devil does not exist," Oh, don't worry about my spelling or grammar I think you get the message ok.
Well this must be my night!! On one forum I am a renowned prophet and on this one I believe in the biggest lie known to mankind!!
Sheesh! I'm tired! :biggrin:
Quote from: mcgonser on March 11, 2009, 09:10:08 PM
No God did not screw up, but we do as humans. It is our nature.
That's like saying that a car manufacturer who builds a car that is prone to crash for no reason is not responsible; it's the car's fault.
QuoteThe greatest lie ever perpetrated on mankind is that " The Devil does not exist,"
That could not be true unless the devil is as omniscient, omnipotent and powerful as you claim god to be.
QuoteOh, don't worry about my spelling or grammar I think you get the message ok.
Sorry, can't help myself; my grandmother was an English teacher and I can't help but notice what appears in many cases to be a mutually exclusive relationship between religion and education.
Quote from: Exterminator on March 11, 2009, 11:23:17 AM
It only seems that way because they are all brainwashed to respond in the same way.
Kind of like democrats, huh?
Quote from: mcgonser on March 12, 2009, 08:40:06 AM
Kind of like democrats, huh?
Perhaps; you'd should ask one.
That could not be true unless the devil is as omniscient, omnipotent and powerful as you claim god to be.
I thought you said you were an ex christian? Do you not know the story of Satan? I would suggest you don't sell him short.
Why can't we all just believe what we believe and leave others beliefs alone? Maybe THIS is another reason why Americans are more spiritual than religious. Everyone telling them they they don't know enough or don't know the right things gets so disheartening.
Live and let live and STFU! :rolleyes:
Considering the several versions of satan, beelzebub, etc. that exist in not only christianity (all the different versions of that religion), but also various other religions, the permutations and combinations of that story are virtually endless.
I agree that we should let people worship as they want. I believe that is the American Way. But, I do feel that I have the right to stand up to those who trash mine. It is a two way street.
Trash your what?
My Beliefs
It is a shame that we can't follow our own beliefs without putting someone elses down. I thought this is what American was founded on, the right to follow your own beliefs. You haven't heard me trash anyones religion, tell them they are going to hell for not being of my faith. But in return I will not sit by idly and let you put my God, his son and my beliefs down. In return I won't yours. Ok
Trash away. If I had a god, his/her ego wouldn't be so fragile.
there you go again Ex, being negative and reading it wrong. I don't trash people for their beliefs or non-beliefs. I do have a inkling that I am very strong in my belief but not sure you are as strong in your non-belief. Otherwise you would not be so defensive and negative. Oh well it takes all types I heard. :flower3:
Quote from: mcgonser on March 15, 2009, 12:04:33 PM
I do have a inkling that I am very strong in my belief but not sure you are as strong in your non-belief.
Silly girl; one can not strongly not believe in something.